Underfloor Fuel Tank

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    Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 10:56am
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Hi All
Any recommendations for around Auckland for an Alloy Fabricator to make up an underfloor fuel tank for my Fyran 580. ? Preferably one that will have experience with the ins and out of  fuel tanks, breathers and filler locations and baffles etc.
The Totes have been fine, but want to increase the range and free up space at the back for Live Bait Tank, plus just don't use the rear underfloor storage.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 11:03am
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Pet peeve of mine. Whoever you find, make him guarantee:

1) It will cope with the full flow of a fuel bowser
2) You can park the boat with the tank reasonably full at any "normal" angle and fuel won't spew out of it on a warm day.

Car manufacturers have been doing it for decades yet many high profile boat builders struggle with the concept. Viewed from these two aspects my Stabi's fuel tank is a very poor performer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 11:09am
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Thanks, Yeah I think I will need a small overflow tank on the breather for expansion with a gate valve in it to back flow any fuel that gets to it. Also think the filler and breather need to be on the front of the tank as that will be higher when towed and stored. 

By my calcs I can fit 130 to 140L tank in place  but will be happy with 100L so that leave a little room for pipes and expansion tank. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 11:43am
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The bottom doesnt need to be flat or 'level' so can locate the pickup at this position... and the gauge float.
The filler and breather need to be at the highest point when towing,.. but be aware that when full, and the boat is sitting flat in the water they still need to be at the highest point... which also means the top of the tank doesnt need to be level with the boat or the base.

Do not have the filler and breather if possble so u get an airlock when filling... which can cause blow back when the boat is moved with the air literally exploding out the breather spraying fuel everywere....or also if filled on a cool day, boat parked up, fuel expands and again doing the above.

The above issues are usually cause on Std boat tanks because , as referred to a post above ( "Car manufacturers have been doing it for decades yet many high profile boat builders struggle with the concept."), the base and top are parrell, and add to that , because of the stance of the boat the filler is at the wrong end ... usually the rear of the boat.....
If there is 'head room , in the compartment the tank drops into then one end can be chocked up to suit and 1" or so.

I think much of the problem is  boats as far as I know dont have regs meet along these lines... and seems they are more interested in  the marketing of how much a tank holds rather than how well setup....meet customer perception thing


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 11:47am
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Thanks Steps. Good idea. Can easily get the lead of the tank to rise up an inch or two above the rear. Then the expansion tank can be mounted over the rear section of the main tank with a gate valve back down to the main.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 11:56am
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Since you've got a Fyran, you could try them. Their website states that they make tanks and do boat repairs.
Look up survey requirements for good advice on size of plumbing, baffles etc.
There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Adriatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 12:23pm
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Originally posted by Dasher Dasher wrote:

Hi All
Any recommendations for around Auckland for an Alloy Fabricator to make up an underfloor fuel tank for my Fyran 580. ? Preferably one that will have experience with the ins and out of  fuel tanks, breathers and filler locations and baffles etc.
The Totes have been fine, but want to increase the range and free up space at the back for Live Bait Tank, plus just don't use the rear underfloor storage.

Dasher, I used Fabtech Sheetmetal Engineers to build me and install 130 L aluminium tank on my previous glass boat.  A small firm, know what they are doing and easy to deal with. From memory, they also do steel tanks as well, also supply on a regular basis  one or two most reputable glass boat manufacturers. Canon Place, Pakuranga , phone - 577 1285.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 12:35pm
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There is also a place that does custom Ally and boat mods on one of the roads between papakura heading out to Cleveden.. on the right hand side from 'kura  within about  2 or 3 miles out of residential 'kura

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Apex Predator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 12:53pm
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Easiest way to solve blow-back and expansion is to have breathers at both ends of the tank and not to over-fill it
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 12:59pm
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+ 1 for filler at the front end. Often easier at the service station as well.  Often by the time the stern of my boat is at the pump, there is insufficient room to turn and I have to back up, and of course someone is parked hard behind me ...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reelcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 2:45pm
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There have been a lot of bad installations around but the best one I have seen was a custom installation on a Haines Hunter where filler pipe fitting was high in the outboard well and breather was mounted just above it. This meant any spills could be contained in the well rather than in the bilge or on the floor of the boat.
I too would go along with breathers at opposite ends of the tank and the higher you can go with breathers and filler pipe the less chance of a spill. The important thing with the breather is for it to rise all the way from the tank to the fitting, easier said than done sometimes.
In a perfect world breathers should be about half a metre above the top of the filler pipe but on a small boat this is virtually impossible.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 3:00pm
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Any suggestions on fabricators? Just heard back from Fyran. $2k appx which seems steep. They estimate a 90Litre tank which also seems small for the area. My calcs come out to 140L so removing capacity for bracing and fittings it should still be a larger. I got the impression they are just shoe horning a tank out of anther model into the space rather than making one that performs the best. 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 3:02pm
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Thanks Steps, Ahhh Yes - I remember seeing that one.
Have also had Nautechmarine suggested. Has anyone used them?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 3:06pm
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Originally posted by Adriatic Adriatic wrote:

Dasher, I used Fabtech Sheetmetal Engineers to build me and install 130 L aluminium tank on my previous glass boat.  A small firm, know what they are doing and easy to deal with. From memory, they also do steel tanks as well, also supply on a regular basis  one or two most reputable glass boat manufacturers. Canon Place, Pakuranga , phone - 577 1285.

What sort of price range was it for the installed tank? Will give me a better idea if the Fyran price was genuine.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote yknot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 4:39pm
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Originally posted by Dasher Dasher wrote:

Thanks Steps, Ahhh Yes - I remember seeing that one.
Have also had Nautechmarine suggested. Has anyone used them?


I can recommend Nautech Marine, they are great to deal with, give them a call.
As for the size tank, fryan could be going off the safe weight for your boat fully loaded.
Those that say it can't be done are being overtaken by those doing it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 7:42pm
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Originally posted by Reelcrazy Reelcrazy wrote:

There have been a lot of bad installations around but the best one I have seen was a custom installation on a Haines Hunter where filler pipe fitting was high in the outboard well and breather was mounted just above it. This meant any spills could be contained in the well rather than in the bilge or on the floor of the boat.
I too would go along with breathers at opposite ends of the tank and the higher you can go with breathers and filler pipe the less chance of a spill. The important thing with the breather is for it to rise all the way from the tank to the fitting, easier said than done sometimes.
In a perfect world breathers should be about half a metre above the top of the filler pipe but on a small boat this is virtually impossible.
Take a look at the older Ramco installs too (can't comment on the new ones). Very good design and I have no issues. The breather is out the front then piped all along the gunnel to the rear. The piping was part of the build even if a tank wasn't fitted. I fitted my own and put the inlet on top of the stern to Starboard of centre line. 
Don't forget to think about where you want the right size outlet to sit too. Make sure it's someplace that it won't impede fitting/removal etc or get broken off. It normally would flexi pipe to a fixed (mounted) filter. The outlet should be piped to the lowest point of the tank. In my case as the tank is long and flat that was at the stern. It's a good idea to have a connection before the hand pump so you can change to a tote in an emergency too. 
Dave there is a rather good welder up here in Whangarei but I guess thats a bit far? 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dead Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 10:17pm
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You could also try Auckland Petrol Tank Services in Ben Lomond Cresc in Pakuranga.  Did a great job for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reelcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2014 at 10:37am
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One thing that should be done is to pressure test the tank before installation. 2 or 3 psi is more than enough and can be achieved by a temporary extensions on the breather(s) and filler pipe. With these test pipes every two foot of length vertically will result in 1psi of pressure being applied. Easiest if done with water just dry the tank out again afterwards, a hot sunny day is usually enough although methylated spirits can work pretty well too.
Don't do what a friend of mine did and capped off the outlet an plugged in his compressor at about 5psi there was a loud noise and the tank had a bulge blown in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2014 at 10:52am
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Originally posted by Reelcrazy Reelcrazy wrote:

One thing that should be done is to pressure test the tank before installation. 2 or 3 psi is more than enough and can be achieved by a temporary extensions on the breather(s) and filler pipe. With these test pipes every two foot of length vertically will result in 1psi of pressure being applied. Easiest if done with water just dry the tank out again afterwards, a hot sunny day is usually enough although methylated spirits can work pretty well too.
Don't do what a friend of mine did and capped off the outlet an plugged in his compressor at about 5psi there was a loud noise and the tank had a bulge blown in it.

Haha Thanks for that. I was indeed thinking of pressuring with the compressor. DUP!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2014 at 4:52pm
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Dont know about stainless , but the old vaccuum cleaner that used to have blow where enough to pop any cave ins out of classic car tanks....
So doent take much to buldge a tank with large flat areas...

It testing and really want to have a liquid, use kero and a bit of dye added... but the simplest is how the check LPG Wofs on cars/ vans etc......a bottle with a mixture of dish wash liquid and water....slightest leak, and I mean slightest that show bubbles.

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