https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/ Mon, 06 Jul 2026 00:20:09 +0000 Sun, 05 Oct 2014 06:05:47 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.01 360 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=104235 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/ https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491788&title=600yearold-canoe#1491788 Author: bazza
Subject: 104235
Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 6:05am

lemmy wrote: Very interesting stuff Bazza , thats the basis for people explaining all the cave paintings that feature reptiles, crocs etc in the South Island that a voyage of "Asian" mariners travelled down here after visiting our Ozzy mates. Getting down here would be easy enough in a big Downwind type Junk leaving again and Sailing the wrong way home would be challenging?

Apparently this is where having been a submarine commander the author was as were the Chinese in their junks, familiar with ocean currents & claims they would have ideally suited to the voyage undertaken.

Read the book as am sure you will find it fascinating.]]> Sun, 05 Oct 2014 06:05:47 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491788&title=600yearold-canoe#1491788 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491773&title=600yearold-canoe#1491773 Author: lemmy
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 10:16pm

Very interesting stuff Bazza , thats the basis for people explaining all the cave paintings that feature reptiles, crocs etc in the South Island that a voyage of "Asian" mariners travelled down here after visiting our Ozzy mates.
Getting down here would be easy enough in a big Downwind type Junk leaving again and Sailing the wrong way home would be challenging?
]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:16:37 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491773&title=600yearold-canoe#1491773 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491755&title=600yearold-canoe#1491755 Author: bazza
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 8:24pm

fish-feeder wrote: Does anyone have a copy I could Bludge to read? Maybe the fish farms were so they ddnt have to stop sailing, by the size of the boats id assume they would be sailing fastish and wanted to tame full advantage of the seasonal tides while theywere strongest.... maybe

Almost all the libraries have copies, or if not can get one in..]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 20:24:49 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491755&title=600yearold-canoe#1491755 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491750&title=600yearold-canoe#1491750 Author: Capt Asparagus
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 8:13pm

1421is a really interesting book. His follow up book about the Chinese triggering the renaissance is also really very interesting and is pretty well argued through, not as far fetched as it would initially seem.
Nz gets a mention in the original book, wondering why nz has two types of wild pigs, one European, one Asian, how the Kaimanawa horses got here, other stuff like that.
Worth a read eh.]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 20:13:39 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491750&title=600yearold-canoe#1491750 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491723&title=600yearold-canoe#1491723 Author: pjc
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 5:44pm

one would think the ships were not fast,drifted rather than sailed so time is no problem,as mentioned before maybe they had there species and were unsure what fish at sea was even edible?]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:44:38 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491723&title=600yearold-canoe#1491723 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491712&title=600yearold-canoe#1491712 Author: Lethal
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:56pm

the crud from the bottom of a fish farm would supply fertilizer for plants, its better than anything you can buy,
ive seen a few hydroponic veggie planter which use a fish pond to feed plants in a high rise building, just guessing why they would breed their own fish... ]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 16:56:35 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491712&title=600yearold-canoe#1491712 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491704&title=600yearold-canoe#1491704 Author: Reel Deal
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:32pm

I think it wasnt till the titanic was a larger ship built and there were hundreds of them a true floating community/country with thousands of people /plants/ animals. What I thought bizarre for the time that they didn't go to conquer as being so advanced they could have but for collecting knowledge. They brought back exotic animals like giraffes and chefs,kings etc to meet with their emperor, then returned them all. They spread corn, sweet potatoes etc amongst the many countries they visited. The apparently visited nz during the years the went round and round the world. It's a interesting read anyway. ]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 16:32:59 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491704&title=600yearold-canoe#1491704 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491696&title=600yearold-canoe#1491696 Author: fish-feeder
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:03pm

Does anyone have a copy I could Bludge to read? Maybe the fish farms were so they ddnt have to stop sailing, by the size of the boats id assume they would be sailing fastish and wanted to tame full advantage of the seasonal tides while theywere strongest.... maybe]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 16:03:24 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491696&title=600yearold-canoe#1491696 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491676&title=600yearold-canoe#1491676 Author: Reel Deal
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 1:50pm

Imagine a ship full of concubines washing up on your isolated beach
Yes I've read that book. They didn't just carry food but grew it on the massive Junk ships. Corn crops on the massive decks, herds of animals etc. The fish farms were odd i thought as why not a line over the side?would have been enough unless they were a fav type of eating fish.?
]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 13:50:26 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491676&title=600yearold-canoe#1491676 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491625&title=600yearold-canoe#1491625 Author: bazza
Subject: 104235
Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 10:06am

OK just to throw some more food for thought into the cooking pot, how many here have read the book simply titled "1421" & If you haven't would strongly suggest you do, your local library should have a copy.

It is written by Gavin Menzies a retired British submarine commander about a huge Chinese fleet of junks that set off to travel the world on a trade mission under the command of admiral Zheng. Now these were not the sort of junks we would think off as many were the size of mini aircraft carriers & the fleet even carried farm animals as well as some were concubine vessels where the crews could find "recreation solace" to relieve the boredom of extended periods at sea.

In his capacity as a submarine commander for many years Menzies was fascinated by discoveries that supported evidence of where this fleet had travelled & also where the currents would have taken them as apparently ocean going junks by virtue of their design are not suited to sailing against the wind therefore are largely reliant on ocean currents.

There have been several "knockers" of this theory so make up your own mind as to its' validity but I came to the conclusion that if only 10% of the many examples quoted were true then it is hard to deny the theory holds water .

Examples include :-

Potatoes / sweet pots / kumara etc. tubers native to Sth. American finding their way to a multitude of counties.
Breeds of chickens native to China now commonly existing in many countries.
Twin tracks of flat paving stones found where the gap between for a keel & the flat stones to suit flat hulls for hauling out
the junks for maintenance or repair.

Then comes the real doozy :-
It is claimed that a ships' bell from a junk was found buried in the sand on a Nth Is west coast beach & that was carbon dated as 14 th century. It further claims that Chinese DNA is found found to be present in some Maori, BUT only originating from female genes which it is theorised resulted from a concubine junk being washed ashore perhaps in a storm on the NZ coast.

The interesting conjecture was the claim that the European explorers such as Columbus, Tasman etc. were hardly likely to sail off to unknown parts of the oceans with only enough food & water for a one way trip unless they knew land existed
along with the proximity.

Menzies claims after approx. 5 yrs Zheng arrived back to China with the fleet much depleted by storms etc to find the emperor who had commissioned the expedition ordered the remaining fleet destroyed along with all records because in the interim his palace had been burnt down with the loss of his favourite concubine all of which he took to be a sign from the gods that they were extremely displeased at his having initiated the expedition.

According to the theory Zheng followed the emperors' orders to destroy everything but could not bare to destroy the charts from his travels before making copies & after his death the copies eventually became available on the black markets around the world such as existed at the time. That alone makes sense to me!

Read the book then make up your own mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

PS I understand Menzies has also written two sequels that I have yet to read.


]]> Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:06:52 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104235&PID=1491625&title=600yearold-canoe#1491625