Dynamic / Pool training.

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    Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 2:35pm
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Hey Guys. Struggling to get out as much as i usually would due to work but want to keep up dive training.
 
Has any one got any tips for cross-training in a pool (i think the term is Dynamic Training)?.
or any routines that are effective learnt from experts?
 
Appreciate any feed Back.
 
P.s - I will not be training alone. 
 
Cheers!
 
Tyler
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2014 at 5:41pm
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Tyler as a test try doing underovers. Do the first 25m underwater, then swim back on the surface breathing through your snorkel. Repeat to do a full 10 laps. Use your hand to touch the blue T at each end of the lane on the underwater lengths so as to ensure you're doing full length 25s underwater. The test is to see how long a set of 10 takes (10 laps = 20 lengths, half of which are underwater). This will test your fitness and your ability to recover.
Wear togs, fins, mask and snorkel.
Any time under 8 minutes 30 is good going.
In my opinion this is much better training than seeing how far you can swim on a single breathhold.
Also I never train hard when alone due to the risk of blackouts, and when with others I make sure they all know how to do a recovery. If you don't know about recoveries then don't train for breathhold.
Please let us know how you go.
Also if you do a set of 10, then wait 5 minutes and do another set of 10 your second set will usually be quicker than your first. Also you may find that lengths 3 and 4 are the hardest. After that you get into a rhythm and can generally speed up.
Do or do not. There is no try.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Weightless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2014 at 3:10pm
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If you are in Auckland, come along to the Auckland Freediving club.  We do a mix of training similar to above but also throw in a bit of theory too.  We also dive at the Lake on Thursday evenings over spring / summer and have a number of Spearing and Wreck diving trips scheduled throughout the year.

Here's a little teaser of a "typical" Monday night.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TylerBlack_spearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 9:51am
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Looks Pretty Cool Weightless, just checked out the hours you guys run your sessions and they really dont work for me, as i attend night school during the week. Otherwise  would have been keen. Another 2 years and yeap.
 
Cheers Barx, great tip gave it a go today, did the first in 10 minutes, and the second in 8.45!. do i just repeat this routine or is there more to do?
 
Thanks Guys
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Weightless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 10:52am
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Maybe when you are all educated then.
Just a comment though, make sure you are doing this test (and any other underwater training) with a buddy.  Even 25M swims that are high in C02 has a risk of black out.

Good luck with dropping that time down.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mullins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 10:53am
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Really depends what you're training for. That routine is great if you're doing lots of surface swimming and repeat shallow dives e.g. paua, crays etc. If you planned to do fewer, deeper dives you'd need to train accordingly. Training for depth/distance is tough though, not very pleasant.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mustang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:29am
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The training Barx mentions is obviously very good for your fitness and I've done a bit of this over the years (with Barx too). One thing I find is that it does actually compromise my ultimate breath hold time a bit. Recovery time between dives improves so it is a bit of a mix between doing fitness type training and depth/distance type training.

One of my favourites to do in the pool is negatives (empty lung) training, both static and dynamic. Sometimes I'll just do a complete pool session of negatives.  It's a good challenge both physically and mentally. The key to it is not to empty your lungs too much or push too hard when first doing this as it can leave you feeling a bit head achy as I've seen with new guys getting into this. Build up to longer holds and longer dynamics just as you would with regular statics or dynamics.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TylerBlack_spearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:40am
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Cheers Mullins, So What pool Training is Involved for Depth/Distance Training? or can this not be acheived in a pool? Thanks
 
Thanks Mustang,  so training with negatives increases breath holds an dynamics, is it the same routine as over an unders that barx describes?  or is it a differant routine?
Sounds good
 
Cheers Guys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Weightless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 2:40pm
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FRC dives (passive exhales) is a good way to bring your contractions (and dive reflex)  on early and make the dive feel like a lot more of a challenge.  Last night was Static night at the club and we did a series of FRC holds are warm up before doing a full inhale hold actually.  Some found it worked a treat and did some good new PBs , others found it quite a distraction.  

A couple of things tyo consider with exhales though:
It is easy to end up hyperventilating between these types of dives;
Also bare in mind that if you start doing these for depth though you can increase the risk of a lung squeeze, so go easy as you hit your Residual volume early and also do your recovery breaths gently (we normally do a 25% inhale, then 50, 75 then full).

On a related note, I suspect Daves FRC is probably close to most of our Total Lung Volume..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TylerBlack_spearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 3:06pm
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thanks weightless. is that while doing ten under ten over? or jst in reps of ten with like 30second break between laps? sounds good.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mullins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 3:27pm
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As mustang pointed out, there is usually a bit of a tradeoff between fitness/recovery on one hand and max dive time/depth on the other. This is hardly noticeable to begin with and is more pronounced as you get better. As you focus on one, the other suffers because they are totally different - almost opposite - types of activity.
 
You can definitely train to improve your max in the pool, it's arguably the best place to do it. Essentially it means doing fewer, longer swims with complete recovery between each one.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 4:30pm
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If you want to vary the unders/overs a bit try doing the return lengths on the surface with your ankles crossed over and no leg action - just pull yourself along with your arms (your legs will sink). Also vary the underwater lengths with dolphin and scissor kicking. Good for overall fitness.

Another variation is do the return length as bumps - swim down, touch your chest on the bottom, curl upwards and push off with your arms, and exhale as you surface and roll forward like a dolphin breathing in, and repeat. The secret is to do the whole length with only single breaths each time you surface (don't cheat and take a longer break).

I like to shallow dive currenty points so these exercises work for me.

As prep for a trip where you'll be doing longer dives negatives are hard work but do create good improvement. Also delayed starts where you lie on the surface for an interval (say 30 seconds) then do an underwater 25 on the same breathhold. Repeat and each time increase your static delay by 30 seconds each time until you get too cold to continue. Anything over 2 minutes is good going for me.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 5:32pm
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or come and have a go at Underwater Rugby (Sunday nights 5pm - 6pm at West Wave, Alderman Drive, Henderson).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mustang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 10:42pm
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No you wouldn't train the 10/10 when doing negatives. When doing negatives you'd train more like Mullins describes i.e. do fewer with longer rests for complete recovery between attempts.

Just take it easy when you first have a go at negatives and make sure you have your training partner watching closely.

Some people hate negatives and can't get a good feel with them - personally I love them and the feel they give - a great simulation for the feeling of depth. My PB is a 1.30 static followed by a 22sec 25m. I'm not sure how that stacks up but it feels great when I do it!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 10:52pm
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Gah! Near on 2 mins on exhale? 

 Censored that. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 7:34am
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Once your comfortable with negatives try the negative crawl. Breathe up,exhale and sink then use only your arms to pull yourself along the bottom of the pool. Make sure when you surface your head is above the water as you'll have a mean vacuum!

Other drills which should help your bottom time are the mid delays. Get your buddy to goto centre of pool (we use a weight to mark the spot) set a time for the delay so your buddy can tap you on the back when time is up. Breathe up -swim to mark -float to surface - hold for delay time - swim to other end. Start with 30 seconds then work up to 1-2mins delay. My theory is it's like swimming to 12.5m depth (without feeling of pressure) with 30-90 seconds bottom time. Once you've nailed that try negative delays but be extremely careful make sure someone is right above you at all times!

Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 7:37pm
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You can buy glass suckers off Trademe or from Topmaq. They stick to the bottom of the pool and provide a handle to hold onto. They are ideal for Dobos mid delays. We often do group routines where one divers swims to the handle and holds on till the next arrives, then completes their length. Then the next swimmer leaves the end of the pool, etc. You get a sort of routine going where the next swimmer doesn't leave their end of the pool until a certain delay has taken place, hence influencing how long the previous swimmer is at the mid-station. Kind of fun. Can be cruel.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 7:38pm
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Tyler, well done on 8.45. Good effort. How deep is your pool?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 7:40pm
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Phantom, we used to play underwater rugby at QE2 prior to the earthquakes. Brilliant game. We changed the rules up a bit to be more like gritiron so you were allowed to tackle payers off the ball. The strategy became to "pave a way thru" for your ball carrier. Brilliant fun. Wish we still had a deep pool in Chch. QE2 is sadly missed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TylerBlack_spearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 7:46pm
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thanks 4 all the helpful tips guys. pools not very deep barx only bout 1.6metres deep. is jst close to wrk in mount roskil
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