the little blighters
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138884
Printed Date: 28 Jul 2026 at 5:36pm
Topic: the little blighters
Posted By: letsgetem
Subject: the little blighters
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 4:10pm
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I fished yesterday, and was plagued by little snapper stealing baits. This is not new. I can see how they do it. I think they see the barbed end of the hook, and know to avoid it. They grab hold of bait that protrudes out from the hook, and do a big powerful jerk using their bodies. That pulls the bait further away from the hook, so it becomes easier to get hold of. In an amazingly short time, the bait comes off. And thats with bait elastic wound securely to try and keep it on the hook. Whereas bigger snapper just engulf the bait and get hooked. S0 - how to reduce the constant loss of bait and rebaiting when there are small snapper but no big ones? Bait elastic slows them down, slightly. I assume having hook point showing is bad, so I assume covering it with the bait is a good idea. Another possibility, is to put on two separate baits on the same hook, which would mean removing one bait would still leave the second one. Somehow stopping bait from protruding could be worthwhile - as the nearest they have to get to the point the more likely they will make a mistake. NOte this is in a situation where there are only too-small fish, but bigger ones are expected to arrive. If you think there probably wont be bigger fish, might as well move. Anyone got pearls of wisdom on this problem.
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Replies:
Posted By: Keith C
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 4:36pm
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Use octopus. Available in Pak'nS. Lasts well. Else do a Snappa Geoff with half a kahawai. If you want to go away from bait, try a metal lure. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 6:00pm
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I have always believed and been led to believe that the point of the hook "should" be protruding from the bait. Perhaps I have been wrong/mislead all these years. Any experts out there that could point/me us in the right direction? Thank you. Cheers
------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2024 at 6:26pm
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We hook mullet through once in a strip,and yes the bait bitten just before barb.they bite sb in 1/2.
------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2024 at 7:50am
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I leave the hooks well exposed. I use recurve hooks almost exclusively. I also fish the Manukau harbour which has plagues of small snapper. Big tough baits help but I prefer to just move. We use 8/0 hooks for snapper but will still get the occasional small fish. Even big baits will get stripped right down until there is only a little bit left on the hook and then the next little fish is the one you catch. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2024 at 7:53am
 If the little hua's are steeling bait cottoned baits , probly the next step is to use tougher baits , I like salted squid . If you are waiting for the bigguns to show up maybe lift your anchor and drift back 50m in your berley trail ( thinkin you will be closer to the bigguns that are on their way ) and see if things dont improve. I think generally that if all your catching is small ones its probly time to either move or possibly change tactics and targets and go for a different fish dinner, maybe Gurnard ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2024 at 7:24pm
Great advice! ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Mc Tool wrote:Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2024 at 11:05pm
------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 6:51am
Hi Guys, I look at it a bit differently the reason why your catching the little ones. Its simple your putting down rigs and bait that they can eat or pick at easily. You may think im being a smart arse or wot ever with my replies it doesnt bother me. Same applies for fishing out West when catching 30cm and under Snaps. Try mixing it up, if i was harbour fishing i would run run small freshly caught whole baits like mackeral, herring. no takers cut them in half. using Pilly,squid, bits off fillet that are soft just invites the pickers. My thoughts on burley i think 90% of the time all it does is attract more and more little fish, but its thrashed on all the fishing shows so most use it. Have never used it and never will. Where i fish the little ones are there as well in there hundreds, if my baitline sabiki with little baits goes to near the bottom the pickers jump on straight away. I fish mid water for Kahawai and jack macs for bait. Exactly the same thing happens no matter where you fish. For instance my first trip away to a Coromandle Comp the majority fish mussle farms and heaps of burly small baits. the catch Snaps generally in the 30cm range. There are alot of small snaps there, we fished whole macs and half macs to avoid the pickers and caught winning fish. the pickers didnt touch our bait. Its not rocket science just common sence. 
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Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 8:59am
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THats all interesting, thanks. But, that my original gripe was tiddlers stealing the bait too much, therefore costing too much in bait and effort. And I want to stay there, because bigger snapper reliably turn up at some stage over the tide change. Unfortunately they seem to have varying schedules, so I cant be sure when they will arrive. I catch virtually nil tiddlers because of the size 7 hook. One tip I will try is use octopus bait.
I am cogitating about making long narrow strips of squid, and winding it around the hook, and covering with bait elastic. Thats to reduce any bait sticking out that they can get hold of. Hopefully, when a big fish does arrive, it will still think its worth eating. Its a pity that this forum is almost dead - put your thinking caps on about topics.
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Posted By: BananaBoat
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 9:58am
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Salt your pillies on newspaper, not in a brine Newspaper separates the juice from the pillies and over the days will make the bait tough. Add more salt, the baits will be like leather. A commercial fisherman who did charters in the off season at great barrier isl shared that with us and it works Small snaps can't rip it off the hooks Use bigger whole fresh baits with bait cotton also works Keep your fresh strip baits off the bottom, surface to mid water is best, the snaps will come up for it Also, come in closer to the reef, where it's more snaggy, the better fish will be there If all else fails, just keep at it till it changes, I usually find it changes just before change of tide |
Posted By: rowboat bob
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 10:52am
| With spawning season just about here , there are only small snapper in close . The better fish are in 15 to 25m plus in the gulf. Came back from a sailing trip last Sunday and there was a number of undersize snapper floating in a line on the surface , out from Gulf Harbour . It looked like they had originated from a group fishing off the rocks on the breakwater. If you can't get out to at least 15m at present , then best to give it a break until Christmas. |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 11:32am
| Banana Boat - thats interesting, keep baits up off the bottom. Will small snapper avoid going up high after them, while big fish will? |
Posted By: BananaBoat
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 12:20pm
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Hard to say This works for me where I fish on auckls nth shore, which is generally under 8m in snaggy foul ground, but mostly 2-4m A few times when I was only getting undersize snaps, I stray line my 4kg mono setup, no trace, just using a spiders hitch double and got better fish just before change of tide..... other times just undersize fish to 33cm no matter what I do or just zilched out Mid next month onwards the fishing will be better with fish size and numbers |
Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 1:17pm
------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 2:08pm
That is a theory I have held since I fished the Mayor Is. and Motiti Is. waters regularly in the 1970s. Stray lining with large baits would always catch the larger fish. Same practice works well over here in WA too.
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Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 3:41pm
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2024 at 6:50pm
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[QUOTE=Snappa Geoff]Hi Guys, I look at it a bit differently the reason why your catching the little ones. Its simple your putting down rigs and bait that they can eat or pick at easily. You may think im being a smart arse or wot ever with my replies it doesnt bother me. Same applies for fishing out West when catching 30cm and under Snaps. Try mixing it up, if i was harbour fishing i would run run small freshly caught whole baits like mackeral, herring. no takers cut them in half. using Pilly,squid, bits off fillet that are soft just invites the pickers. My thoughts on burley i think 90% of the time all it does is attract more and more little fish, but its thrashed on all the fishing shows so most use it. Have never used it and never will. Where i fish the little ones are there as well in there hundreds, if my baitline sabiki with little baits goes to near the bottom the pickers jump on straight away. I fish mid water for Kahawai and jack macs for bait. Exactly the same thing happens no matter where you fish. For instance my first trip away to a Coromandle Comp the majority fish mussle farms and heaps of burly small baits. the catch Snaps generally in the 30cm range. There are alot of small snaps there, we fished whole macs and half macs to avoid the pickers and caught winning fish. the pickers didnt touch our bait. Its not rocket science just common sence.
[/QUOTE As probably the best big snapper fishermen I've met (there's a few) I have to say that Geoff's advice is good. Whole fish tend to be left alone by the smaller snaps, You will catch fewer snapper but the big ones will feature. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2024 at 6:37pm
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2024 at 9:46pm
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I still stand by my previous statement though. Big snapper aren't everywhere that little snapper tend to be. sometimes it is just best to move
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2024 at 5:42am
What does this all mean? Our grandparents taking 6lb+ was normal those between ages think 3 to 6lb normal then the next generation will think under 3lb normal Remeber "Nathan Guy" increased sizes and dropped bag limits back in 2013? so there is defiantly a increase in smaller fish in the inner gulf than before,so his thinking is working + 200k fish the gulf. How many out west cross the bar? Busy day down Mokau way is what 10 vessels?
------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2024 at 4:48pm
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Agree about the use of livies but I also found when I used to bait fish, if the small buggers we’re around I would go to much smaller baits. My thinking was the larger baits acted like burley bring more small fish around. |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2024 at 8:14pm
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Hi Pcj, five to ten boats average amount during the week in Mokau. If tides on the bar aren't suitable especially in winter with less daylight hours the bigger boats dont go. Im out there on my own alot as I beachlaunch. Weekends and summer 30 plus on a nice day. On sizing I would say my average would be around 6 odd kg. a good one over 9kg and a big one over 11kg plus.
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Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 3:50pm
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I have tried octopus, also squid and mackerel and trevalli. Snapper didnt seem to like octopus much - about the same as squid (not surprisingly). They liked trevalli and mackerel more. Octopus seemed tough as squid. But octopus cost a lot more than squid. So I wont use octopus.
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Posted By: lawabidingpoacher
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 7:14pm
| The great debate of bait ! The amount of times someone using freezer burnt pieces of god knows what , out fishes all . Who puts on sun screen , insect repellent before fishing ?? Do you wash hands thoroughly?? I think makes a big difference |
Posted By: lawabidingpoacher
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2024 at 7:17pm
| Didn't Finnish me post , fat fingers 😁. I use no smaller than 7/0 circle hooks . The amount of small fish I catch is minimal. As for the pickers I find if prevalent they strip anything . It's time to move |
Posted By: BananaBoat
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 6:07am
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Usually I find the first 3hrs after a tide change equals small fish, no matter what I do it's still the same Now I target the last 3hrs before tide change and it's better, be it east side or the Manukau I'm fishing mostly under 10m Back in the day when we would go out wide in boats to 40m plus, it didn't really matter as the fish size was always bigger, and always best around the full moon It's a funny old thing fishing is aye How many times have you been out, only to watch the fala next to you catch heaps and when the slight breeze hits and the boat swings off a little, we start catching and the other fala gets nothing.... it could be you're just slightly off your spot and makes all the difference and everyone is using the same baits and same fishing method Sometimes just shifting over that slight bit and re-anchoring has made the difference |
Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 9:56am
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I like your thinking Banana boat. Now here's the problem Wife will be catching and I won't get a bite.Swap sides and she still catches fish. ------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 1:29pm
You aint got that on your own  .........its the only reason she gets to go ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2024 at 9:29am
| Bump. |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 5:19pm
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I tried Octopus for bait. Cost was too high (about twice what I paid for trevalli).
It was tough. About the same as Squid. But snapper didnt seem to like it much (same as squid). Sometimes they would have a go at it, and give up and go away. I suspect that the best advice is to use a whole or half baitfish like mackerel. Because - it isnt attractive to small fish, but is to bigger fish. Thats not absolutely always, as sometimes small fish have picked away at a whole mackerel until its gone. Cheeky buggers. Merry fishing!
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Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2025 at 9:34am
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To recap, my topic is "how to reduce the work rebaiting due to tiddlers taking the bait". Ok, after trying various ideas- I have not been able to avoid a lot of tiddlers. One way, is certainly to search for bigger fish offshore, that sometimes works, but its hit and miss. In shore, I have decided to stop anchoring with berley, as that attracts hordes of tiddlers. Yesterday, drift fished, got far less attention from tiddlers, and caught 4 keepers. I think I have more to learn, refining drift fishing. Im pleased. And, I didnt get so tired. Actually, I did get very tired, but because I stayed out too long. Silly old bugger. And I save on berley $18 and half the bait about $12! And I dont have to pull up the berley pot! Wow.
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2025 at 12:33pm
| I don't think snapper like this bait and dislike that bait most of the time, although there will be exceptions. They are massive scavengers and will eat anything that is under their nose, even my lures on occasion! I've seen them eat dead birds and polystyrene. I think baits are differentiated by their ability to give off a scent trail. Can the snapper find the bait? This is the opinion of a lure angler. Feel free to ignore! |
Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2025 at 5:36pm
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Was out today fishing micros, I would have caught 50 little ones but still kept 3 for dinner. Will these small fish grow to become keepers |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2025 at 3:21pm
| I used Chicken gizzards for bait. Fishing was hard, ie very few bites, only 2 keepers just big enough. The chicken performed well - caught 4 on chicken and 2 on trevalli including throwbacks.And its very tough, more than squid even, so resists being jerked off. Bought from Pknsave. |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2025 at 6:36pm
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Aw,I was just going to say the fish freezer in P&S Invercargill has oodles of frozen fish options ,most of which I have not seen before ,and most of it is at bait prices or close . Couple of weeks ago there were whole blue cod there and there was easiest the biggest blue cod I have seen for a bloody long time . ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 07 May 2025 at 5:39pm
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Update. Used chicken gizzards and trevalli. Snapper liked both. Caught 4 keepers so quite good result - but all caught over one half hour drifting, and rest was 2 hours of continual tiddlers. Got too tired even after 3 hours. Because far too many tiddlers therefore too much effort rebaiting. Chicken gizzards much harder to get off, so I think I will use only gizzards, to reduce the huge effort rebaiting. I should have moved further away from shore/foul, to try and avoid tiddlers. grrrrrrr!!!! - on the way back, at speed about 25knots , saw a branch in the water close to the boat, too late to swerve. Passed under the boat, then hit the transducer, tore it off - looked back to see transducer banging around on the end of its cable. Ive screwed it back on, hope it still works ok. Keep having fun guys and make some posts.
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