Kayak fishfinder restrictions
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Yak Yak Yak
Forum Description: The forum for Kayak enthusiasts
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48669
Printed Date: 06 Jul 2026 at 9:42am
Topic: Kayak fishfinder restrictions
Posted By: Muppet
Subject: Kayak fishfinder restrictions
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 6:20pm
|
Its bloody frustrating owning a kayak sometimes.
Looking into getting a new FF for the winter to rassemble the P13 with a color unit the missus has kinda given me the OK to get one soon to install over winter! Been having a look at the high end models from Humminbird, Lowrance, Furuno and most impressivly for me it is the Raymarine AD50. Its insane..
I wanna upgrade my FF to give me more confidence going further offshore I want to see as much as possible if I am heading out on long trip and not have my electronics struggle finding fish or stucture in deeper waters.
The Raymarine is possibly the one I want to get but the transducer (Aimar model) is frikken huge and weighs a house brick, how the hell do you install one on a P13 or any other yak TBH! You can't just put them inside the hull either even though the unit puts out 500 watts of grunt its digital signal advantage would be lost if you did this. They have to be transom mounted ideally but the back underside fin on the yak doesn't really help you out much does it! I have been brainstorming all afternoon on a bracketing system (I know you did one Mental
 , how is that going??) without affecting the kayak performance? And ideally not Ali or any other metal I would prefer plastic. Anyone had any plastic welding done on their yak in that area as I was thinking of taking mine to shop to get done.Any thoughts fella's? Cheers.
 |
Replies:
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 6:51pm
|
I like Raymarine kit it's good stuff, or at least when it was made in the UK... BUT the A50D is ONLY IPx6... I think it means you could probably sneeze on it without ****ing it up but anything beyond that would probably break it. IPX 7 means you can submerge it in water for half an hour and it will survive. IPX 8 means it's actually waterproof and can remain underwater indefinitely. IPx6 is fine for a boat, may be it'll get a bit of spray over the bow, or may be even get rained on... if your fishfinder is 1m under the water on a boat you probably have more to worry about then you electronics... No worries with the transom mounting EXCEPT if you angle it to get it on the roof you end up with the transducer on the floor - not a problem as such but you have to remember it's there... Yes if you want it permanent then mount a wedge on the transom, I did toy with this idea but a) wanted it removable when I get a new kayak and b) needed something quick. For plastic welding throw the kayak on the roof and go see Johnsons in Silverdale they have a couple of welders, and plenty of plastic... ------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Naki man
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 7:25pm
|
Wondaboy used to have a raymarine - installed in hull i think Has changed to - i think a Lowrance? Anyhow pm him if you want to know why he changed Cheers ------------- The solution to any problem - work, money, love, whatever - is to go fishing - the worse the problem the longer the fishing trip should be. "I have a lot of very large problems" |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 8:30pm
|
The AD50 is used by some of the Jetski lads so it must get a hammering on thew water. IPX6 is able to withstand serious heavy seas apparently, I have no plans on going upside or overboard and will avoid all chances of that happening as you know Mental i.e. Toots!
But it can happen I know....There are Raymarine IPX7 units available too the DS fishfinder only series which are discontinued but still available using the same HD technology. These are obviously not as crystal as the 640x480 pixel AD units but still bloody good units but still have the same transducer problem of being huge.
its a big decision it has to be right for the $$$ I will be spending!
Is anyone running the Lowrance HDS or Furuno models at all??
|
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 8:54pm
A Jetski doesn't get submerged either... and your kayak WILL be upside down at some point - that's not a doom and gloom thing - it's a fact... My kayak has been upside down three times that I can remember in the last 12 months - NONE of them were planned... Last one was about two weeks ago on what was a pretty flat day - just leaned out a little too far to try and flick my line off my rudder and... Cost anything that wasn't IPx7 (my "rugged" phone) and everything that wasn't tied on (two $2 shop knives and a towel) ------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Muppet wrote:Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2009 at 9:25pm
|
Been yakking for over 7 years and never tipped one yet even jumping in my ol scrambler XT off the stones in horrible swells Its a point though mate I know over 2 k on a FF thats not IPX7 rated is a steep risk maybe to far.
I don't think there is that many true IPX7 rated FF models on the market though and a lot of manufacturers don't state there trueratings, Humminbirds for example?? Lowrance too in fact Raymarine are the only ones that really state true IPX ratings at the point of retail.
|
Posted By: piwikiwi
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 10:45am
| Ive got a supposedly ipx7 rated garmin ff 90 and Ive had it apart after its died during dunkings. It has no rubber gaskets between the front and back of the unit, just plastic to plastic. It shows signs of moisture, fogging behind the screen when Ive been hit hard by a big wave or turtled. Thats why Ive taken to stowing it. Yet my etrex gps has been perfect no problems at all. |
Posted By: Naki man
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 11:53am
|
yep it always gets you when you least expect it. when we went out on Thursday the sea was flat, not much surf - didn't even pack my rods away coming back in I miss judged a wave. I usually like to get on the back of one and ride it in rather than surf one in, however I haven't had too much trouble surfing the Profish in. Any hows ended up surfing in when another wave bounced back off the cliff and came running back along the wave I was surfing in - yep it ended in tears. Nothing broken, nothing lost, bruised pride. 1st turtle in the Profish.  never tipped out of a yak at sea  only in the surfNever had a Lowrance or Egale wrecked from being dunked - went through 3 screens on the humming bird in 12 months ------------- The solution to any problem - work, money, love, whatever - is to go fishing - the worse the problem the longer the fishing trip should be. "I have a lot of very large problems" |
Posted By: piwikiwi
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 12:33pm
I knew it you sicko
|
Posted By: JB
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 12:51pm
| muppet, if you don't have the rudder installed then maybe a bracket that fits onto that slot with a kick up action if you strick. In the past i've have side mounted brackets and from my experience they get in the road, either with paddle stroke or lines etc. I've seen other p13's with the transducer mounted where the rudder mount is. Might come out of the water in large chop and get some cavation effect but probably the best postion (outside locating it in the hull). Mounting it outside also brings back into play the water temp readings as ones inside don't ready correct. If you at all interested in water temps. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 6:28pm
|
I have considored that JB, had a looksy at some units this arvo, spoke with the electronic experts its interesting what they had to say on the Lowrance HDS. They were advocating putting the transducer inside the hull but I wasn't buying it. Tough choice coming soon.
|
Posted By: nylg1
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 10:18am
|
I think if it was me I would be going for the inside hull install. I just don't think there is location as good as in the middle of the hull. If these kayak manufactures made a good sized scubber pocket and didn't just cater off there parent companies product you would have no worries..... ------------- “The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.” ― Wernher Von Braun |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 11:06am
Yes that is a good point, and probably my main reason for replacing my Elite with an Ultra... I'm used to "fishing my feet" i.e. seeing fish on the fishfinder under my feet and then dropping a bait down to it, and seeing my bait going down on the transducer, with my transducer now mounted in the stren you can't fish like this at all, and you don't see fish till you passed over them so you end up fishing behind you... or drifting backwards and trying to get the bait in the right place... just not the same as having the transducer in the center... ------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Rainbow
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 11:47am
Muppet
If you troll through this forum you will not find too many water proofing complaints about Lawrence FFs, which gives me more peace of mind than any company paper ratings. I am just one of many users who can lay claim to that fact. BTW you don't have to dunk a FF in a turtle to get moisture in, air exchange will suck in moist air, which then condensates behind the screen and quietly corrodes your electronics inside.
If you go after game fish such as tuna it is pretty vital to know the water temperature. You can only get an accurate reading with an outside transducer mounting.
Rainbow
|
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 2:31pm
|
Fair point Rainbow more research on the HDS series has them manufactured as IPX7 and my Lowrance X52 is working fine again since I changed the fuse which had completly corroded out.
I know Lowrance is extremly good but have also heard some stories outta the States saying the HDS series is not as good as the older models. But at least you get a 2 year warranty....
The transducer location on a kayak IMO is not that important as long as the transducer stays in the water! Which is the problem with putting a bracket on the back of the yak in choppy seas, it would just be the same as a boat install. Remember your beam is a circle (stating the obvious) not a straight line it will just means the front of the beam is a couple of metres behind what it would be thats all.
|
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 2:46pm
Speaking from real experience you WILL notice the difference - but then again if you don't currently use your fishfinder for targeting fish then no it probably won't matter to you - I got very used to being able to target a fish on the bottom and dropping my bait in the water, watching it drop, and seeing the fish come up to hit it... Moving the transducer 2m back makes this very difficult as you are now fishing two meters behind you and rather than striking at the fish in a vertical movement you are pulling it way at an angle... Anyway that's my observations, I'll be very keen to hear your feedback when you've fitted yours. Yep also heard mixed opinions about the HDS stuff but to be honest they are probably biased as I heard most of them on the HB SideImaging forums  Actually what is putting you off the Humminbird?------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 4:32pm
|
Don't get me wrong Mental I WANT my transducer in the scupper hole but we know that one size doesn't fit all which is the point of my article, anyways is yours not working as well as you hoped?? You have far more knowledge on that than me mate and was hoping for your opinion, would I be totally wasting my time putting a transducer there?? Maybe we should discuss over a beer
I watch my sofbait get snaffled by snapper all the time especially in the channel its hilarious watching those thin black lines come up to meet that fuzzy little line on the way down
But I can't hunt down targets in deeper water which is the reason for the upgrade.Humminbird is still in my thoughts as far as my options go, it will be a high model so hopefully I have no water issues if I do go Humminbird but only have a 1 year warranty. I don't want side imaging by the way just power and a clearer picture of whats a happening beneath the waves
 |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2009 at 8:04am
|
Ok... Cons: 1. Transom mount means it's very hard to drop you bait on top of fish 2. External mount means you are forever scared of catching it on a rock/reef/beach and scratching it or snapping off the transducer 3. It must add some drag to your kayak - although probably not noticeable 4. In rough water it "pops" out of the water loosing signal Pros 1. No hull interference 2. Temp works - but of course only the temp if the top two inches of the water and the transducer will also get heated by the sun - not sure who much this will effect the reading need to go out there with a thermometer one day... Yep side imaging is a novelty and I've only used it a handful of times to identify so fishy looking structure say 50m to the left. My deepest fishing so far with my Humminbird is 50m and it was still picking out individual fish on the bottom (although sideimaging is useless at this depth, it's only meant for the shallow stuff) - but how deep is deep? Touch wood I'e had no issues with my 798CI, it's been smashed by plenty of waves over the bow, turtled once, and I'm not sure how others clean their electronics but at the end of the day I fill the kitchen sink with warm water and throw my electronics in and give them a swirl around to rinse all the salt water off/out... ------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Naki man
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2009 at 8:41am
|
I had an external mount on the F n D. Set it up on a fold up bracket so that you could lift it out of the water when paddling. When it was down, it was like dragging a couple of lures. I would always install it externally if possible. I just have a 50dsx and they are ok for structure up to 75m - in saying that I haven't used a high end FF so I don't know what I'm not seeing  I would be keen to get a high end ff with chart plotter, but would have the same mounting problems as you Muppet ------------- The solution to any problem - work, money, love, whatever - is to go fishing - the worse the problem the longer the fishing trip should be. "I have a lot of very large problems" |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2009 at 9:23am
|
All fair enough points Mental cheers Will have to make a tough decision I will think about it a while.
|
Posted By: toaroa
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 5:16pm
|
Thanks for all the ideas here. Unlike Muppet, I don't intend to abandon my beloved x52, but may change the transducer location. I have a sit-in, so my options are limited. It works reasonably well through-the-hull, but because the surface it's stuck to is also the one I'm sitting on, there's some flex and the silicon does tend to come unstuck over time. I'm thinking of changing to a rudder mount because I have one of those rudders which can be raised/lowered while seated and in advance of the beach. If your only choice was a slightly dodgy through-the-hull or a rudder mount what would you go for? At the moment, I'm using the FF mainly to find structure, bait and schools rather than individual fish, so perhaps I wouldn't be missing anything if I stuck it on the rudder? |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 6:58pm
|
Fair enuff there toaroa its funny since putting on the article I have to say its going to be tough parting from the X-52, what a job it does especially in the Rangi channel. As soon as those squiggly lines show snapper on the bottom or just off I just drop my bait straight on them. If I had the arms and patience I would fish the channel purely like this but the tidal flow tires you quite quickly.
But I do want that extra detail, power and selectable sonar cones for fishing deeper water away from Auckland.
|
Posted By: toaroa
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 8:03pm
| If you've got the cash and you think you have the need, why not? It's rare that we ever regret buying quality kit. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 8:40pm
My missus reckons we don't have the cash, funny it never stops her
|
Posted By: pizzaeater
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 9:17pm
|
Hey Muppet, I have done some IPX testing on fish finders and will let you know that IPX6 is harder to pass than IPX7. Don't even think about IPX 5 that ain't going do you any good. Like every kayaker I was worried about loss of performance shooting through the hull but talking to a couple of the designers/engineers of fish finder transducers I would not worry about shooting through the hull unless you are doing side or structure scan set ups. These guys say the loss in signal is not be significant as the elements are designed to shoot through plastic. A transducer consists of an element/elements potted into a plastic casing. In saying that I have a thru-hull air-mar set up on my kayak, after the initial worry about cutting a large hole in my hull it has been all good. But my next install will be shoot through hull just for convenience. If you do drop a couple of k on a fish finder for you yak I would also recommend silconing the screws and around the connectors. These are the most suseptable areas to leaks. I have killed a couple of fishfinders that have leaked around the connectors and it does not take much water at all. Some fish finders you will find will have the screws inside the main seal, over time this could cause problems as the plastics creep. Also make sure the connectors you do not use are also covered as some of these connectors can leak through the pins. Another good point is make sure the screen is bonded, this will ensure you will not get any fogging... |
Posted By: andyvan
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 1:40pm
|
Any of you guys know how to protect fish finder plugs from corrosion? Is vaseline OK or do you need special electrical grease? I also seem to remember someone recommending a rubber glove finger to cover the plug. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 2:43pm
|
Cheers for that info Pizzaeater IPX6 I know is a good waterblasting basically try to replicate very rough seas. I don't know if IPX7 goes through this stage or whether its just a calm water dunking for just under 30 mins. Do you know the test procedures at all mate?? Is it done in stages i.e. IPX1 then IPX2 and so on...
Good advice on sealing up units too mate.
|
Posted By: nylg1
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 2:45pm
|
Vaseline is ok but does tend to melt away when it gets hot so I now use rubber grease works well..
Muppet how is the decision make process going ? Still leaning towards the lowrance ? ------------- “The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.” ― Wernher Von Braun |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 4:34pm
|
nylg1 well I got a Humminbird transducer boot for $50 the other day! Had a look at CJnathans 787c2 unit on the water this morning was pretty good but I believe its not got digital processing like the 788 has. If your gonna spend might aswell get the new technolgy.
Reading pizzaeaters info on water tightness/transducer in hull set up has me dreaming of that Raymarine unit A50D again
Anyway its going to be a winter project I don't fancy taking my yak apart at the moment with the good fishing happening. |
Posted By: plastic tiki
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 6:23pm
|
You could always try finding a transducer of the same strength in a different shape to fit and get the experts to change the connections, a mate shopping in the states had the same issue with the transducer on a HB model and the rep at a bass pro store talked him through the differences in transducers and the showed him the specs etc and where each part was manufactured. Apparently the majority of transducer internals are the same, just casing and connectors making the differences. Don't quote me on it as i'm definitely no expert!
------------- The perils of kayak fishing are great...... especially for the fish! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 7:00pm
|
I thought the new HD models like the high end models from Humminbird, Lowrance, and Raymarine only accept their transducer signal don't they? I have heard mucking around with transducers ain't the smartest move, funny thing was speaking to the ENL consultant the other week he said the HDS models would blow up my 200khz transducer on my yak. Yet their catalogue I got sitting on my table states the HDS converts my single frequency transducer model HST-WSBL into a duel frequancy 200/83 khz set up. Go figure that one!
I believe this is the same transducer set up as the X50ds which is duel search 200/83 too I believe.
|
Posted By: nylg1
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 8:05pm
It is probably the same transduser but the X50ds has a different plug on it. I think it is HST-WSU for the DS.
Just being nosy and had a look on the Lowrance site and I see what you mean the part numbers are the same for the X52 and the HDS range transdusers.
So the blow it up call seams a bit out there
------------- “The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.” ― Wernher Von Braun |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 8:28pm
|
Yeah tell me about it, you would think the sales team would know more, mind you said he was the Furuno specialist I suppose.
|
Posted By: MR D
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 8:27pm
| I have a HDS-5 and it was supplied with the HST-WSBL transducer. In the set up menu you can pick a lots of different transducer type's including after market Airmar models. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 8:35pm
| Do you like the unit MR D? Does it show good detail. I had a look and play again today still not fully convinced by it and I hate the mounting bracket and magnet card port. Those magnets corrode badly apparently keep an eye on it. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 6:25pm
| Think I have done the sensible thing and got a Humminbird 788CI gonna use with the transducer rubber boot thing, I suppose you can't get more performance than that. Looking forward to see what it can do. |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 6:44pm
|
Interesting choice Muppet, what dollars did ya get it for and did you go for the standard XNT-9-20-T transducer or something different in the end?
------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 6:51pm
|
Standard transducer Mental for the boot and it will be around a grand + GST I guess!
Those marine sites in the States are very good and helpful.
|
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 6:57pm
|
I can reccommend www.jandhproducts.com that's where I brought my 798ci in from, they have the 788ci for under NZ$900 shipped to NZ (plus GST if you get pinged) http://www.jandhproducts.com/_e/Humminbird_Fishfinders/product/Humminbird_788C_Fishfinder_GPS/Humminbird_788C_and_788CI_Fishfinder_GPS_Combos.htm You'll need to buy a local map too of course, just get a new one off Trademe or wait around for a secondhand one to pop up, I was lucky and picked up a north island card for $50!!! :) Cheers, Mental ------------- http://www.kayakfishing.nz/forum/" rel="nofollow - www.KayakFishing.NZ Kayak Fishing - It's Catching! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 6:59pm
| Yeah theres some prices around for sure. |
Posted By: Rainbow
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 8:15pm
|
Be careful buying FF in the US. Their warranty only applies in the US. So if it craps out you will have to send it back there. I got caught with a Hummingbird FF a friend brought out for me.
Rainbow
|
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 9:28pm
|
I asked that question Rainbow and was assured they would do me right.
Also any Humminbird only comes with one year anyway even in NZ so I ain't losing sleep over it.
|