I know 50w drags will be less than the 80w

Is it igfa legal ?

what knot to connect the braid to mono?

some clubs/comps allow braid, others don't.

depends want you want from your fishing, if you are after records/comps you need to be legal, if not, no worries.

others will know lots more about this than me................

 I agree with the thickness of the braid. if you are not wearing gloves with extra protection on your finger tip like the pelagic or aftco gloves then it gets very painful! Also if anyone plans on using straight braid be very careful putting it in the riggers. I met a deckie who had the tips of two fingers chopped off when a fish took the bait he was just about to set up in the riggers and he got a hitch around his fingertips. Not pretty!!

Some friends of mine will splice a hollow section over the braid then do the same with the mono for a seamless connection. I know Ryan who fishes on Monkey Biz in Kona uses this connection a lot without any issues and despite the fact he's a dirt ginger, I have a lot of respect for him

I do not fish the Nationals and one day the NZBFC will wake up and accept braid! one day!

All braid to mono splices are 100% strong and easy to do, so no worries! so why would you need 80W reels anyway? once the drags are tuned for 80lb settings you can fish with confidence in your gear for Blues, Stripies and Swordfish, pm me for more info or call 021 975 471, cheers steve

have you tried a couple of plaited doubles to join it, started last season when swapping out the mono over dacron sure as hell qick and simple after doing the splice for many years.

Thanks for your time when you showed me your set up -still have the dacron sleeves (but haven't used afta learning FG knots -wouldn't trust em on game  though-with a blue for hour or few) -still need to perfect it -only mortal or too stingy to pay for better expertise. But I am confident there is good set ups with braid havin seen what you do,  and suggest those who don't know (and want to explore boundaries) get some instruction from those that do (you).  Like most things seeing is believing.  I"m sticking with mono and bought another tiagra 80-(took a lot of saving) -but happy with that - plaits and catspaws I know.  But hey I was never leading edge unless was shown! 

Cheers S.

 

Love your work Steve

 

I've got a 50sw that I bought in 1989, it's got 700 yards of 130 pound spectra on it because you couldn't get 80 hollow 12 years ago and the guys in the shop reckoned you need to run 1 size heavier that the top shot line class. Not required now though.

 

I've caught serveral marlin in NZ and Yellowfin off mexico with this reel and never touched the drag even when using 100 pound top shots. It's been a great reel.

 

The NZSFC aplpication of the IGFA backing rule needs to be addressed. We'll put a remit up for next AGM. All it will need is for club delegates being instructed to accept the remit.

 

Lovin' your work too lethal.

 

Imagine you had the fish of a lifetime on ... a grander blue or black maybe, or you're fishing in a tournament worth millions of dollars and the fish is a certain winner, or a 500 lb stripey, etc... and you were allowed to have two choices of outfit to fight it on.  (A) line that would test all the way through at say 24 kg, or (B) 24 kg test topshot on top of 60kg braid backing.  Which would you choose?  I don't think many of us would not reach, very gratefully, for the one with heavy backing and feel glad that 700 or more out of the 1000 yards on your reel would be a whole lot stronger than the topshot - a lot more resistant to hitting floating objects or other accidents or damage.  If you had a 15 kg record caught on 15 kg all the way through, how would you feel if your catch was beaten by a fish caught on 15kg topshot and 50kg backing? 

 

The weakest bit in flyfishing has always traditionally been the bit near the fish, but this arose not because of any sporting ethic but because lighter material was needed to fool the fish.  Big game fishing has traditionally been done with line of the same strength all the way through.  Line technology has advanced since then, but so has a lot of technology that isn't allowed either, like electric reels.  The traditions are simply different, you simply can't use bait for fly records etc (mind you I'm sure some here would just love the IGFA to outlaw bait as well).  You could say that the fly anglers have enough of a handicap in only being able to have a 12 inch leader that it's only fair to let them use flyline and backing that breaks heavier than the tippet!  If I had to try and catch a marlin on fly gear I'd definitely reckon my chances were way way better on a 12-foot leader and 10 kg test after that than the IGFA rig of 12 inch leader and 15 inch 10kg class tippet followed by flyline and backing! 

That's really all it's about, not if you can make it easier, better or whatever.

Sure lot's of things make sense, like the tippet idea, but as our predecessors didn't get that choice, and caught records without that choice, then it's not fair to the integrity of the sport to change the rules ---------- for records and capture points.
 

Sure using 150lb braid (why not use 400) makes catching game fish easier, but is it gamefishing which is based on a very simple concept:

'The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and that the latter is entitled to an even chance for its life'

 

 

 

 

So what has using braid backing got to do with this statement? the week link is the tippet or top-shot, better a fish tow around 100m of 50# than 800m because of the same size backing breaking breaking, I feel the braid does not put much more in the anglers favor except the capacity on the reel, there is no rule that states how much line you can put on a reel so this argument is irrelevant. I am a strong believer we need to keep progressing and obviously still need sensible rules to keep it an even playing field. Hell we have evolved to mono which is a big leap forward from what the old timers were using.

The capacity thing is an interesting subject, to date every game reel manufacturer has beefedup the drag, but only Makaira has beefed up the torque to handle braid. Argue all you want about using 50W's, they just don't have the power and torque to handle the drag, even the difference in using a Taiagra 50W and 80W that have the same drag and gear box is still massive. If you can't wind the handle against the drag pressure you are using in gamefishing you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage. Of course it's your choice to do so. Don't get me wrong, 50W are great reels.... for 15kg :)

Fished 130lb over an 80W the otherday running 60lbs of drag...caught a 600lb bluefin....could still turn the handle ok.

Fish 50lb on a talica 8... a reel that fits in the palm of my hand and can turn the handle ok.

Well I am still chasing my first marlin, so I don't care how sporting it is, I just want to catch one. I am spooling one of my reels up with 130lb braid PR'd to 100m of 100lb mono. Set up over the winter with a spread of all your lures Peter after reading all your articles, hopefully does the trick.

 

The weak point is still right next to the swivel or the end of the leader and that's where it's going to pop when it all goes bad. Nothing is making that know stronger except for the way it's tied.

 

You could argue that it's less likely to pop because the water drag is reduced by a thinner diameter braid backing.

 

But if you take that stand, you would also argue the FISH IS ADVANTAGED because they're dragging around less weight of line and will not tire as quickly.

 

You do need to be careful about reel size, this can become a disadvantage to the angler. A Blue marlin running fast, hard and long can still cook the drag on a 50 wide. Even when I fished the san diego long range boats 10 years ago, skippers warned against fishing the revillas with anything less than a 30 because even the worked drags just weren't consistently up to the bigger (200 pound) yellowfin.

 

The reality is that the world is moving on and fishing is changing with emerging methods that make the old rules redundant. Rules that don't make any sense like the IGFA backing rule can and should be changed, because they really don't make a hill of beans difference for the angler or the fish. But they do inhibit the use of modern methods used for catching fish.

 

 

 

For modern jigging methods a length of line class mono is still required between the end of the braid and the start of the leader. A PR knot from the tippet to the braid and a loop to loop cats poaw from the tippet to Leader would be required for the tippet idea to work for modern jigging and topwater fishing. But people would still be able to claim record fish caught using these methods.

 

It's been suggested in other posts that the tippet length still needs to be long enough to get enough test samples from  and therefore you still need at a pretty decent length.

 

We also saw when Tuna fishing that the tippet couldn't be much shorter than  25 metres because in some conditions there was a greater chance of hookpulls on head shaking fish due to the lack of stretch.

 

Therefore specifying the minimum length of tippet doesn't do anything for increasing abrasion resistance and in other cases too shorter tippet actually favours the fish.

 

The really interesting thing I've noticed of late is that people seem less interested in catching records, but more frustrated they can't use modern fishing methods when fishing national and club tournaments that forbid the use of braid. One would think there's a reasonable answer to that problem.

Happy for gamefishing in comps to stay all mono -which is why i recently splashed out on another Tiagra 80 rather than a tricked up Avet 30 ... just bought a little SLX for snapper fishing though.  Lost my share of great fish (including big tuna and marlin) on mono too -has made me a better fisherman!

I'm working on a new reel with a powerfull spring mecanism much like the old fly reels. 6 foot handle to do the spring up, as the fish strike the spring activates and the fish is pulled to the boat on the size 10 reel, 1,800lb mega helium braid (being released in a few hours, much lighter than flurocarbon) before you can get the rod out of the holder. It's new, easier and the rules should be changed to allow it as it's better for the fish and less effort for the angler and makes the $8,000.00 worth of gear you saved 3 years for redundant and because the new stuff is so much better you'll be able to sell your 8k worth of gear for at least $500.

Bob, don't get me wrong. I'm all for change, but the reality is NZ, Australia and South Africa game fishermen mainly fish IGFA and national rules with over 80% fishing IGFA rules whenever they gamefish and most are happy with things the way they are. In other countries like the USA it's around 1%. and there's just so much to learn within the current system, most are only just coming to grips with it, and there's lots of development that's possible within the current rules, and there's just nothing in the rules to stop you having fun.

 

 

But leaving everything else aside, it seems fundamental that a record claimed on a specific line class ought to mean the same line strength all the way through?  I truly believe heavy backing gives you an advantage, in particular if contact is made with anything in the water (or the boat if you're unlucky) - especially when compared to lighter dacron in the 15kg class.  

 

The answer could be to open a new category of topshot class (rather than line class) records.  The IGFA have added quite a few record categories in the last several years and it wouldn't totally surprise me if they did it. It's in their interest to have more people trying for and applying for records.  National/Regional game fishing associations would probably do the same if there is enough grass roots pressure. 

 

off topic ... I have often wondered whether the famous Tuna Club quote that says the fish is "entitled to an even chance for his life" still has relevance today. Indeed, what does it actually mean?  That you should give the fish a 50% chance to break the line?  Back in those days everything was killed (I don't think the Tuna Club ever released a single bluefin) so the only way for a fish to get away alive was to break the line. There were probably enough fish around that if you broke one off you could give the fish three cheers and a hurrah.  Yet if a fish breaks away with your lure, leader and however much line it managed to take, is that really giving it an "even chance"?  You could say that today's anglers who mostly release billfish and let many other game fish go as well are giving those fish a much better chance for their lives. 

 

That is a very good idea and possibly the way forward, creates it's own set of issues but may still be the answer.

 

dustin wrote: off topic ... I have often wondered whether the famous Tuna Club quote that says the fish is "entitled to an even chance for his life" still has relevance today. Indeed, what does it actually mean?  That you should give the fish a 50% chance to break the line?  Back in those days everything was killed (I don't think the Tuna Club ever released a single bluefin) so the only way for a fish to get away alive was to break the line. There were probably enough fish around that if you broke one off you could give the fish three cheers and a hurrah.  Yet if a fish breaks away with your lure, leader and however much line it managed to take, is that really giving it an "even chance"?  You could say that today's anglers who mostly release billfish and let many other game fish go as well are giving those fish a much better chance for their lives.

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www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz

 

Townsville GFC increased minimum size line class in tournament to 10kg and got a massive backlash.

Many Kiwis are over striped marlin on 37kg and are dropping down, some to 10kg a few to 15 and lots to 24.

Perhaps when braid gets cheaper as it surely will and a 24kg reel with 80lb IGFA braid doesn't cost the same or more than an 80 with dacron / mono perhaps ecconomic forces will have a bearing on the thinking.

Everyone now has sounders and GPS, but when they wrere too expensive for most boats to afford they were considered unfair, much like the attitude to sonar now and quite possibly is part of the attitude to IGFA braid.

 

JoshW ... I didn't have trouble turning the handle on a Tiagra50wlrs spooled with 80 on 36 lbs of drag either, though I did find it difficult to move around the cockpit (stand up fishing).  Mind you, this was on only a 500+ atlantic blue marlin, maybe the fish was just too small. 

I don't think you get my point re the power of the reel versus line class. Try this exercise with a20, 30W  50w on 12kg and then an 80w on 12kg, or try to emulate Josh W's efforts.

If you can get these exrecises right then you'll loose far fewer fish.

The bigger reels which mostly means more powerfull grear boxes does = more fish to the boat in my experience.

 

To be perfectly fair, I certainly wouldn't mind cranking on a Makaira.  If they're are powerful as you state I might never need to go into low gear - might not even need to pump and wind. 

Makairas have helical cut gears and a massive thrust bearing to help increase torque.

 "don't really get why you'd wish to "wind the handle against the drag pressure you're using", either. " Dustin because you keep the line as tight as possible, as smooth as possible and with a reel, line combo like that it's really easier to fight fish and catch them quicker and easier. Even now for mono I use size 20 reels for 16lb, 50 wides for 30. In the old days 80's for 50 and 130's for 80. Especially when 10:1 captures were the name of the game. Current 80's and 130's are pretty good for 80 and 130.

 

Will I get to see the braid?

I like straight braid with a non wind-on leader - this method gets nearly a 100% hook-up rate, using either Hayes or Pakula single hooks.

I've given up on the "Sato" Crimps, you need to freshen them up every season other wise the buggers with split on you.

 

These days I'm just closing up the end of the holllow using an old fashioned whipping and sealing with JB spectra glue.