3 for me
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Diving
Forum Name: Spearo's Corner
Forum Description: Free-divers & spearos chat about their sport
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93091
Printed Date: 06 Jul 2026 at 1:19am
Topic: 3 for me
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Subject: 3 for me
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 8:27pm
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So, with the snapper SNA1 thing, can we have a spearo's only discussion on it? Personally, I don't give a flick if we end up with a limit of 3 if we rebuild to 40% ( which actually is an amazingly ambitious target Bo!) Please opine at your leisure... ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Replies:
Posted By: bigbrett
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 8:46pm
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The day I actually shoot 3 snapper.... ------------- Also known as "Dory Rider" |
Posted By: harrison
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:14pm
| The day I actually see 3 snapper.... |
Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:16pm
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Wouldn't mind a cut to the snapper daily bag limit, or the king daily bag limit actually |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:21pm
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^ I'm with Tab47. Ain't no one shoots 20 fish in a day. It would be nice to have the scallop limit increased a bit though
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Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:24pm
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^Im with U'J. 20 scallops is hardly a mouthful. |
Posted By: spear crazy
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:26pm
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Yeah 3 snapper is plenty as lets not forget we can get other species eg butters, jds etc. I definitely agree with tab for reducing kingies quota ------------- Axemen Spearfishing... "Putting the crap back into elite" |
Posted By: spear crazy
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:26pm
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Definatley increase scallops limit and decrease paua size... ------------- Axemen Spearfishing... "Putting the crap back into elite" |
Posted By: :Hunter:
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:28pm
| I dont mind cutting the limit, but I think it should apply to commercial too |
Posted By: B1g_Pun
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:32pm
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I would personally like to see the snapper daily bag limit reduced to 5 or 6 with an increase in the minimum size to say 32cm. I also think that the proposal needs to include a cut to commercial catch, I think it will piss a bunch of recreational fishers off reducing the daily bag limit by two thirds and leaving the commercial quota untouched. Surely if there is a need to reduce take in order to maintain sustainability or increase the populations then the comm guys need to take a hit? That said nothing in this world is fair so maybe they just need to HTFU and let the comm guys keep paying MPI salaries while they have to cut their numbers because the government makes no money off them. I have never shot more than four snapper in a day and don't think I would ever feel the need to. More snapper left swimming has to be a good thing in my books. ------------- "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:33pm
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Daily Bag Limits: Firstly IMHO 9 snapper in one day is way too much no matter how they are caught.
That being said the question I have with small daily bag limits is the balance between those that go out and catch (for example) 2 fish every fortnight - 100 or so fish a year - and those that manage to get out, say, once a month and take 4 fish each time for total of 50 or so fish a year. Or for a more extreme comparison those that get out 3 times a year and take 9 fish each time. Who has the biggest impact on a fishery? Why should the 3 times a year fisher be penalised? Balance between Comm and Rec From what I have seen the proposals from MPI seem to be weighted in favour of the Comms keeping their TACC at the current level and they say the fishery is recovering too. Shouldn't there be a balance between Comm and Rec changes? This is tricky as the number of Rec fishers hitting SNA1 has increased significantly since 1997. |
Posted By: Rax
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:33pm
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I agree, reduced commercial quotas. ------------- Go dive or die typing, |
Posted By: Leatherjacket
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:38pm
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I'd be happy with: Rec. cut to 5 Com TACC cut by 20% Size increased to 30cm for both Restricted fishing seasons for designated spawning areas (just during Dec and Jan) Line fishing only in designated spawning grounds (No trawlers)
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Posted By: PJSPEAR
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:39pm
| i recon one kingy is heaps and up the snapper size limit to 32 like big pun says and drop it to 5.and sort out the comm side of things drop the amount they can take and up the size they can take and if they get caught dumping fish they should lose their quota (on a three strikes sort of scheme ) |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:42pm
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40% B0 is very cool. Haven't looked at the options properly, other than the rhetoric online, to be honest and how they propose to get there. Be an interesting read. TSw have they used the most recent big rec survey results? 3 would destroy charter operators. For me personally it is not an issue. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:43pm
Snapper proposal is on the right track. Maybe rec vs comm should be 50/50 but you can't just keep pushing the rec portion up as population grows, so it's got to be proportionally allocated at some point. 40% biomass across a bunch of species would be feckin' amazing. I'd wear big daily limit reductions to achieve that. To be honest the ranting and wailing in the fishos' thread(s) mostly just looks like a shameful abdication of responsibility 
Not sure on the spawning protection thing. Rationale, leatherjacket?
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Posted By: B1g_Pun
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:45pm
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Don't know about you Mullins but I don't want to get dragged into a big net and crushed to death while trying to get my end away ------------- "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" William Shakespeare |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:47pm
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Of course you can have that debate TSW. I hope you don't get a pile of 'idiot stickers' trying to hijack your thread ... ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:47pm
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^ heaven forbid Unprotected spawning is the way to go if you want population growth bigpun |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:53pm
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I'm yet to come to trips with it all.... But I did have an opportunity today to address the issue... I offered in a negotiation today to reduce their rent by $3 k on a site if they shelve 20% of their SNA1 to assist the rebuild. SAN yet to respond. If that doesn't work I will threaten to stop buying fillet o fish burgers.i a sure this will be as effective as those making submissions. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 9:58pm
| I read that the fish burgers were made from a rare breed that Matt Watson personally kills. It was on a forum |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:06pm
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I've seen a protein extractor in action on a factory ship. Amazing and very gross. That said mcd's have ridiculously high stds for the hoki for filet of fish. Results in a lot of wastage trim. I'm still marveling at the 40% biomass. Never thought they would actually try that. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:07pm
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More like a breed that only Mullins would be a starter for. Seriously though, actually who gives a flying F### if the idjit stickers can't take 54 snapper in a boat of 6 people? Add in the 200 small ones they threw back mangled and I reckon we're onto a winner as far as spearo's are concerned. Should we lobby for two instead? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:12pm
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Can we skip the "line fishermen are bad" thing please. They aren't all bad and they have every right to protest a proposed change if they want to
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Posted By: Troy Tempest
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:15pm
 ------------- ·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> .¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> Just quietly getting on with it... |
Mullins wrote:Posted By: Crippy
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:16pm
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But they use a baited hook UJ! thats like catching fat kids by putting skittles in a bear trap. ------------- Go hard or die trying. |
Posted By: B1g_Pun
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:16pm
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No glove no love ------------- "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" William Shakespeare |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:18pm
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Two, maximum size 30 cm now there's a challenge. Surely the big fish are just sitting ducks to guys with your talent TSW? Smaller ones must be way harder to spear. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:24pm
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Uj, I just honestly don't give a flying flick about them. They are no more 'bad' than nuclear weapons- I.e. only bad when pointed at someone you share distant ancestral ties with. Stupid, but not inherently bad. Smudge, your idea belies your allegiance. Refer to the above. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: harrison
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 10:47pm
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:05pm
Well what can you say. My gang is bigger than your gang I guess that covers it.  ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: TP.
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:11pm
Yup, latest rec survey - est. rec catch of 3800t. ------------- Me he parore e kaukau ana i te kaipara, ko au ki te moana. |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:14pm
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^ What would it be if the limits were reduced 70% TP? Would the take reduce ~10%? (this may well be covered in literature already, but I haven't done any research) |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:15pm
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Cheers tp. I should just read the paper myself. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:26pm
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Here is the reading material
http://www.fish.govt.nz/en-nz/Consultations/2013+Review+of+Sustainability+measures+and+management+controls+for+fishstocks/default.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.fish.govt.nz/en-nz/Consultations/2013+Review+of+Sustainability+measures+and+management+controls+for+fishstocks/default.htm
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:57pm
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hey guys we agree not agree here, yep we want the reduction but we dont want it feed to the quota holders when we give it up, so the stance to hold the statuesque, we have been down this path before and last time we got shafted, rec's gave up a 1/3 of their catch to help restore/rebuild the stock, that is 15 snap's to 10... what happened the Gov increased the Comm's take by the amount we gave up, you go figure, we cant trust them anymore, so we reckon its better to fight for what we have and do the right thing by limiting our own catch under the existing law... rising the size would only increase mortality, its bad enough now... decreasing the limit is only going to make those that cheat, cheat even more by going out twice or overloading boats or stopping off and cooking and eating their first catch before catching another lot.... just pointing out what it might be. ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: TP.
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:17am
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The current proposal isn't to reduce the recreational allowance, but rather to mitigate against the allowance being exceeded. The current TAC is 7550 - Comm 4500, Rec 2600, and 450t assigned to other mortality (illegal fishing etc). Last year's rec catch was estimated at 46% above the rec allocation. The paper offers a number of options, weighing off bag limit vs MLS, to get these back in line. For example, under one of the options (which keeps allocations close to current - 2550t), the constraints that will keep rec catch to the allowance would either be 3 fish @ 27cm MLS, 4 fish @ 33cm, or 9 fish @ 35cm. So its not that the rec allowance is being taken away, more that the rec fishing pressure has grown so much (especially in Hauraki, where take has doubled in the last 7 years) that new measures are required to keep it under the 2600t allowance. ------------- Me he parore e kaukau ana i te kaipara, ko au ki te moana. |
Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:35am
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TSW we hook fish and throw em back, we do not poke holes in them and let em go...spear fisherman if you can call poking holes in fish... fishing, they can be wiggling live baits for sharks with big pointy razor sharp triangular teeth for all i care :) do not forget boating folks help you get to better grounds to poke holes in fish yer! :) happy fishing dude... ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">  MH... Catch measure release...<*))))< |
Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:44am
I love spellchecker. Best malapropism since my boss sent out an email to the entire office advising a staff member's mother had just died "unrepentantly".
Tend to agree with you lot on the proportionality thing Lethal, but there is some seriously weird stuff gushing out of those fisho threads.
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Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:53am
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if they was alllll spearo's would be you be bagging or agreeing with em? kiwi snapper are everyones, not you have your lot and we have our's.. do not forget less snapper means no easy killing the bigger ones, because there won't be many around to poke holes in yer! ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> MH... Catch measure release...<*))))< |
Posted By: Spearocle
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:01am
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3 snapper would be ok with me anytime. comms should include the by-catch into the quota: probably they would think about their fishing methods and a lot of undersized wouldn´t be wasted. reduced kingy bag limit wouldn´t be bad either
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:08am
i love that TP, exactly as MPI explained it... ever heard of this? set when they worked out Quota for the Comm's Moyles Promise 1989 to ensure recreational users have access to a reasonable share so why is our Allowance set in stone? when they should increase it due to population growth??? why are they saying we "Rec's" need to be constrain not the Quota Holders????1, so the quota holders are not disadvantaged??? 2, or because the Gov needs the extra money??? 3, or to help rebuild a stock that is already building??? if it is 3, just 6mths ago we had Comm's dumping snapper due to them not being able to full Quota of other species like JDs Gurnard Tarakihi instead they caught more snapper, they are complaining there are too many snapper in SNA1 and want an increase, might have been bad timing on their part saying that, i dont know... but it is these sort of comments that make you wounder about what is really behind all of this.... also why bring this whole thing up now when there is a new report on the state of SNA1 coming out in Sept/Oct this year, oh yeah right Election Year Quota needs to be set before Oct... or is this all about National having directors/share holders on the board of these Fishing Company's??? or the $34-000 buck given to National to fund their campaign toward the last election, maybe more this coming elect if they push this through.... and then you have MPI funded by Quota holders 2/3 and Gov 1/3 to do this research, you see what we are up against, ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Kinabal Lector
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 6:54am
Sorry dude but while you bait your hooks with purse seined. Bait and catch fish on light gear for sport giving them as much chance to swim away with a hook in their mouth, and if you do land them letting them go where mortality is high, or while I continue to see the bottom littered with bits of softbait. Until this changes most rod fisherme have little cred. I remember when I first worked on purse seiners for a bait company could not help but laugh going past rod fishermen giving us the fingers when I could see them casting baits probably caught by us. Why no talk about breeding habitat restoration I know not politically savoury when everyone wants mangrove free harbours. Here in tauranga they're planning to remove 15000 tonnes off the center bank for ships I can imagine this unlocking excess nutrient pollutants where our snapper breed. Instead we are debating over Spearo snapper take which if we be honest is minuscule |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 7:09am
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Yeah not really interested in spearo vs fish arguments as this is posted in our forum. My aim is to see what our vested interest position could be on this issue. Btw, there's nothing wrong with mpi considering the money/ forex issues- especially from the perspective of the 10% of us who actually pay 80% of the tax. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Crippy
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 7:50am
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Now to show how smart eye relly am is 40% biomass, 40% of the stocks now? and how long is it that they suspect this return in population? I think if the rec fishermen have to take a cut the comms should take the same % cut would this not help the population regenerate faster? Or why aren't the quota owners made to use NZ based fisheries with NZ crews who you would hope would have a more vested interest in protecting the resource? I think a small cut wouldn't be a bad thing but maybe 5 as 3 snapper of the size I have got in Tauranga doesn't feed my family. ------------- Go hard or die trying. |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:00am
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I'm also encouraged by the fisho's declaring it no longer worth them going out for 3 fish each. The hauraki gulf is too busy already. So far I cannot find a negative feature of all this. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:02am
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Cripster, is is 40% of estimated original biomass, about double what is there now. Choice eh? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Renz
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:07am
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Anybody else think maybe they are creating a diversion, i.e. proposing a reduction to 3 snapper a day to create an outcry so they can "meet half way" and reduce it to say 5 or 6? Personally, I'd be happy with a limit of 5 or 6, even as a kid fishing with Dad, this was all we would ever take. Who wants to get home and fillet 9 snapper anyway? As mentioned, as spearo's we usually have the opportunity to take other species on most dives. Not many of us (myself included) have the skills to spear 9 snapper a day anyway, we also tend to target the bigger fish, don't see many posts of 27cm fish on this forum...
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Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:10am
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Not baaaaad Reid. Not bad at all. You'd think that fishing was about to be completely outlawed with the rubbish spouted in the briny bar. Helloooooo... Snapper aren't the only fish in the sea. |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:33am
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Lethal bringing up moyles promise. You think something a political said in 1989 is a promise. How naive is that. There have been several iterations of govt since. Each time a successive come in to power they come in with a new policy mandate. Promises in 1989 would be actually immoral for a govt to hold to given they campaign at election time on certain policy positions. This govt was elected with a focus on economic growth agenda. Agencies are required to support that agenda because that's what most nzers wanted. Saying you don't trust mpi is just immature bullsh@t. Do you know anyone who works there? What their job is? What their own personal beliefs are? The cr@p you are spinning is exactly why TSw set up a thread in the spearos forum. The issue is exactly how tp put it. Recs are catching more than their allowance of the tac. It's not an argument of nets vs lines/spears. But a discussion of how to limit recs impact on the fishery. This decision is not the hard one. It's the next review when the stocks get more healthy and the then minister is tempted to give comms more allowance. That's when **** will hit the roof with the rec community. That's why when I ventured into the line fisho's thread I suggested that they need to enshrine rec rights into law. I got told to piss off because recs already had rights enshrined because of moyles promise and kahawai legal challenge... As far as I'm concerned most rec fisho's get what they deserve because they are living in fantasy land. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: Crippy
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:41am
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Cheers TSW that sounds like an impressive figure indeed(and helps me understand the MPI proposal alot better,19% biomass in 1997 thats sad). I also see they expect it to take 12 years to reach 40% biomass. Has all this noise come from the SNA1 proposal? If it has, someone hasn't been reading properly, proposal 1 on page 61 shows that there is also the option the increase the minimum size limit but keep the daily bag limit at 9 but all the media and other sources have been reporting is the limit drop to three. Sorry if I sound uneducated on the subject and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. ------------- Go hard or die trying. |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:41am
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And 40% BO is awesome! Do that for a few key rec stocks and solve localized depletion issues for hapuka and bass and i'll be a very happy man. Next step get a group to license fishing to pay for buy back of quota of comm's. Cap the population of nzers. Fix pollution and river sedimentation caused by forestry, farming and hydro power into key breeding harbors. Only a few issues to deal with till nirvana. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:43am
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I forgot outlaw all fishing types bar spearing and licenses and safet training for boat owners. anything else? ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:59am
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not to stuff up the spearos thread,how many of you also line fish?as some of us line fisherman like to spear also. its about no increase to comms by ripping off the reccs,and yes spearos you are rec fishers too ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 9:04am
The great thing about this section of forum is if you say something stupid you get pulled up on it regardless of fishing affiliation, colour or creed. |
Posted By: Newsmurf
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 9:06am
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I'm all for it. The reason I love NZ is I can go to the beach whenever I want and catch some FRESH FISH for dinner. Any more than two or three and I would be freezing it - seems like kind of a waste. The more we leave in there the easier this should be to do. Same goes for most species. ------------- I'd rather dive than breathe. |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 10:30am
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If as recs we're over fishing our quota daily bag limits have to come down. Simple. The comms can't get their quota increased because they've got more boats now. 3 seems impossibly low though doesn't it? 9 is obscenely high to me but 3 ain't many. Surely better to tinker with size limits for rec as well? Small size increase would mean each fish has an extra one or two breeding seasons? 1 tonne of big fish is less individuals out of the water than 1 tonne of little ones? Biggest obstacle I see is this ingrained attitude that you go fishing to feed your family - you go to work to feed your family and go fishing for recreation. I notice here that most spearos don't seem to be too put off by the drop and most of us will regularly spend all day in the water and come home with one or two fish and a big grin. Line fishing is obviously so boring that if you're not constantly reeling in small fish it's not worth going out? Also snapper are only one of twenty? species to target, maybe it would be better for all if recreational fishers learnt how to catch fish besides snapper? I was out Lil B week or so ago with a film crew making a show about the variety of species available - they caught I think 10 different species, had a great day, had a mean as feed onboard and there was meal each of take home fish. Surely that's a good day. We kept I think three snapper so even if the cut comes in thats still only a fifth of what we would have been allowed. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 11:44am
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Many smarter people than me have looked into this but do I understand correctly that the current catch is currently 4500 to commercial, and that amount is fixed by the quota system, whereas the recreational take of 2600 is based on an estimate of the number of people fishing and therefore becomes outdated with population growth? Personally I think the bag limits for most fish are far too high, for us down south the most applicable limit is 20 butterfish. Who on earth needs 20? As many others have said 3 kingfish is way over the top as well. Perhaps someone who knows the numbers can weigh in here but it seems to me that the slot limits for blue cod and reduced take has done good work for the population of cod in the sounds. I don't hear many stories of people blatantly violating the rules and eating 73 cod out on their boat before coming back in and hiding more in their second fish smuggling hull as has been suggested. Short sightedness seems to be the name of the game...
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Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 11:52am
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Exactly. Thats the problem with the rec take is it's all based on estimates rather than actual catch like for comms. The work on blue cod seems to have worked wonders by all accounts. The slot limit thing though is because blue cod change from female to male when they hit a certain size so if you take out the big fish there's too much KD Lang and not enough Rick James. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 11:54am
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In fact what it all boils down to is that immigration is the real problem. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: bigbrett
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:06pm
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MJL I trust you are not about to start Saffa bashing - considering where some of the best equipment comes from... ------------- Also known as "Dory Rider" |
Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:09pm
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Lets call for a ban on spear fishing, it's cruel and inhumane to poke holes in fish....:) ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> MH... Catch measure release...<*))))< |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:21pm
Not really a fan of increasing size limits as that unfairly disadvantages shore based guys etc. Not such a problem for the big boat brigade, who are the ones causing the problem in the first place ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:29pm
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If you think that MPI is aiming for a 40% biomass stocks of snapper then you are clearly blinded. Answer these. Who came up with that 40% figure and when was it first brought forward to the public attention? MPI is aiming for 12,000 tonnes of snapper take from SNA1 in the near future see paragraph 19 of the proposal. Now how much % of that would reallocated back to the recreational fisho's when this magic number of 40% is finally achieved? You think we will see any come back to us? When will the 40% biomass be achieved if the 3 snapper per day is brought in? If the average take of anglers is currently 3 per fisho anyway how is the magic 40% going to come about any faster? If indeed immigration is the problem and more and more fisho's are hitting the water how did the government not see that happening with population growth? On the flip side anglers do not need to buy fish on the shelf so why not leave our catch where it is currently, why do we need comms to catch it for us? Why can't we see a boat ramp survey result of dates and places where fish were counted? If it is published show me a link. And finally and most importantly. Why aren't anglers getting any credit for the snapper rebuild? Our fishing methods and catch and release practice have improved greatly through guys reading mags, watching shows and getting advice from tackle shops over the years. If you think we ain't contributed greatly to the rebuild which it has then your kidding yourselves.
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Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:35pm
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3 is enough for you guys as you guys are only interested in double figure fish anyway you guys have the luxury of choosing what ends up on your spear we cant chose what bites our hooks and I know 3 or 4 fish at 35cm can't feed my family to well enough said alough I have got more that I wont say about what I think of spearos in general  |
Posted By: B.C.
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:43pm
Are you assuming that someone might actually care?
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Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:50pm
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why do ya think im not gonna bother
ill leave you to your discussion
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Posted By: chalkeye
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:52pm
Thank god for good genes eh? All the biomass and commercial quota stuff confuses me. If I ignore all that stuff, I'd still support lowering recreational limits. Snapper and kingfish seems a good place to start. A 27cm snapper is a pretty small thing. ------------- float like a crowbar, sting like a bee |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:55pm
I think that's the only thing everyone's agreed on |
Posted By: B.C.
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 12:57pm
It's evolution, baby On a serious note, I don't see the point of increasing the commercial size limit (seen this mentioned a few times). Won't this just result in more dead undersized fish being thrown back?
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:30pm
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Rec's believe we need to fight for no reduction, no size change, some reasons why we cant trust MPI, boat ramp surveys done by students and planes doing boat counts out at sea, come to the conclusion we have now, there is no data available for anyone other than MPI to see, makes you wounder why they would hide this, when they are quoting it all the time we are over fishing our Allowance, no proof provided whats so ever in the form of figures gathered... as for other fish in the sea to eat, you want to see Sanddager Wrasse/Red Pigfish/Granddaddy Harpuka stocks reduced??? most Rec's let them go because they are absolutely beautiful looking fish to them, you and i know the bigger ones are Male and are more likely to be caught, more so now with Soft/baits.. all we would like is the right to catch a feed of snapper, if it stays the same as is, then Rec's will reduce their own catch, they are interested in take what you need not what your allowed... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:36pm
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no reduction? What about 30 years from now when the population reaches 10 million? Still no reduction? ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:39pm
well said I only ever keep enough for a feed but when ya talking 350s that's a few more than 3 maybe 6 depending on how many I have to feed
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Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:47pm
I don't really know what I'm talking about here Lethal but are the fish you mention the type you catch as a bycatch of snapper fishing techniques? If guys changed their tactics would they not be able to catch mao mao, kahawai, kingies, tarakihi, koheru, trevally, porae, jds... ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:52pm
Clearly no research there! In 100 years NZ's population is projected at 6.5 million. But hey might be cock a hoop figures like the recreational catch ones.
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Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:53pm
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I think mjl has a point. Let's send all Northern European immigrants home first. Although, seeing him on Facebook looking all dad like with a kid the other day made me wonder if he wasn't working on contributing his own efforts towards natural population increase? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:53pm
Ok I'll bite. Spearing snapper over 10lbs is bloody hard and it takes most a couple of years of hard trying before they manage one. The number of divers who can do it consistently is very, very small. We have the luxury of not pulling the trigger on small snapper that lineos don't but the net result of this isn't every diver coming home with one or two big snapper regularly it's most divers coming home with no snapper most dives. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: Newsmurf
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:54pm
 Take them out fishing, if they love snapper that much they can catch three each. Its called fishing - not catching. Sometimes we fail. Deal with it. ------------- I'd rather dive than breathe. |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 1:58pm
. my point stands...------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:10pm
I know shooting big snapper is hard (im good friends with a few sparo's what I ment is you guys don't normally bother with panies and you will go get something different instead which is why 3 snaps seems heaps to a spearo
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Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:14pm
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Yeah so as for mistrusting mpi on dealings after 40% is reached, well actually I am relaxed about that staying at 3 fish then also (regardless of an increase in tac) because they will be bigger on average and more of them. This is all identifying a need to agree a quota for rec take to cater for growth of the human population. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:14pm
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why do some say 3 is not enough to feed the family? 9 does not fed the extended family it is recreational sport and spearing/catching fish is bonus from a good day out on the water. if i wanted to fed the family i would go to the supermarket,a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a boat gear bait but no cuts unless commercial take cuts
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Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:24pm
------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:25pm
that's my main thing that ****s me off about all this id take a cut but think is very unfair for us to take full grunt of it after all why the **** should we drop us to 6 and drop commercial quota a bit as well and id be happy as
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Posted By: Crippy
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:39pm
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So youse line fishermen here are basically trying to get people to support your view that the reduction in fish stocks is purely the commercial sectors fault and you don't want to change your ways to try and ensure future generations can enjoy fishing for snapper too(as option 3 does call for a drop in com catch I think) or just want to keep with the status quo until fishing is banned? And snappercatcha below average spearfishermen like myself will shoot a pannie and the most snapper I have speared in a day is 2(after 8hours in the water trying very hard). ------------- Go hard or die trying. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:39pm
they dont have an Allowance, they have a Quota, and if exceeded they have to pay a deemed value which is the reason for the dumping of Thousands of snapper by the Comm's. if the trawlers where to use nets that had escape shoots like what is being used overseas now to reduce the Juvenal mortality which in NZ is estimated at 2million undersized snapper a year then we would be well on the road to 40% within 5years... but no MPI do not what to address this side of it even when they admit its a huge problem... Politicians and MPI are in the same bed, they both are funded by the Fishing Industry... makes it hard to compete... only thing left for NZer's is focus on threatening them with voting them out of power, ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:54pm
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i love this letter sent by Capt A to the National Party, Are you totally unaware of how this looks?! “National party cutting kiwis catches to boost Sanfords corporate pocketbook!” What a lovely headline that is! Please, can’t one of you, some of you, put your hands into the air and shout “Hell no!” to this? I mean, for gods sake people, how many votes do you really want to lose!? Think about it. Pop in to Mr Guys office sometime. Lean your head in through the door and say “....The hell are you trying to do to us! Do you really want to be in the opposition for the rest of your career!” The GCSB thing is just bollocks, we all can see that, no-one gives a rats about that. But when every fisherman in the upper north island realises the YOU have made it no longer worth going fishing, just to hand fish to the commercial fishing industry, well.... then it becomes personal to many many people. Not just for a week either. EVERY TIME the weather is nice, you spoiled the fishing. EVERY TIME they go fishing or a feed, YOU will have made them stop, just when the fish are biting. I cannot believe you folks can not see that such a small thing can seem so personal to so many people, permanently. just to add to this in just 24hrs over 30,000 people have fulled in LegaSeas submission and sent it. ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: bigbrett
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 2:59pm
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TSW it's a pity the fishos have hijacked your thread - as for me I used to fish - then I discovered spearfishing and sold my rods coz fishing started boring the f#$k out of me! I believe someone made the fair point that if say person A went out every weekend and took 9 snapper they are having a much larger impact than person B who only gets out once every 3months and takes 9 snapper - personally I don't rate snapper as an eating fish - very challenging to spear yes, but the tastiest fish I can spear - hell no - I'll take butterfish over snapper every time! ------------- Also known as "Dory Rider" |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:01pm
| even the PM is a keen fisho when he gets time |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:08pm
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hey bigbrett i used to be a spear'o as well and understand how you feel towards us idiot sticks, not trying to highjack TSW thread just saying why we have a problem with this whole deal... i can see merit in 3 only snapper but we need to share the increase in rebuild not just Rec's the Quota holders need to shoulder this as well, they are the ones reaping the benefit from it, Money... Money from the Rec's buy Boats/fishing Tackle/ just to name a few support more jobs than any Fishing Industry could imagine, something like 30,000 people supported by Rec's and 8,000 supported by Comm's... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:18pm
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Thats not really true Lethal - rec fishing is discretionary spending. You're going to spend that money regardless, whether on fishing, skiing, booze whatever. The comms sector is export ie bringing money into NZ. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:22pm
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Lethal, don't you worry, we all know you are a wise old spearo at heart and we very much value your input and time when you contribute to our forum. It is good to have the fishos venture in here and broaden the discussion a bit. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:30pm
Really? You think snapper will get bigger if there is more snapper. How does that work? That is a pretty wild assumption considering recs will probably target pillies, macks, squid, mussels, scallops, crayfish and other food sources snapper eat for a daily bag limit. Snapper are probably the only species standing up to the fishing pressure that is on them with any measure of success. |
Posted By: tom1
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:08pm
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I've limited out on snapper once a few summers ago, one of those days where every ledge you snoop over has one dozing and you simply can't resist! Never felt the need to repeat the feat, and after the event wondered why I'd bothered in the first place, it really was too much fish. Ended up eating snapper 3 days in a row and giving a fair bit away. Plenty of other fish in the sea to target, many better eating. Is 9 the limit, or a target?! 3 fish and minimum size increase I say!! And the linefishermen can stop whinging |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:14pm
your right mjl Quota holders have a return of 40 million from SNA1. Rec;s on the other hand spend something like 120million and support more jobs, i dont know which is more beneficial to NZer's, GST and PAYE paid by Rec's and their supporters or 40million in export... but its pittance either way considering that its a Kiwi way of life MPI is attacking... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:28pm
+1
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Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:36pm
You guys do realise that fishing will still be allowed aye? |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:47pm
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You're kind of missing my point there Lethal, rec fishing is paid for by discretionary income from NZers. If rec fishing was banned tomorrow it'd be bad for the industry, myself included, but the punters would just spend their money on something else so there'd be exactly the same gst etc and jobs etc. Comm fishing brings big bucks into NZ, rec doesn't bring any except a bit of tourism ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:47pm
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yeah Herby, and nothing is going to change, i agree we need to sort out the take but different people have different needs, a single guy like most fisho's have no need to take 9 snapper, but i guy that has a growing family might have 2-3 kids and needs 6/7 snapper, we need to cater for these folk as well, he maybe a shift worker and has days off during the week and cant take any of his family for support to up his take, lots of scenarios that the catch needs to take into consideration, hence it needs to stay roughly as is.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 4:57pm
i see where your coming from, yep Tourism, Quote a charter operator Epic Charters inundated with overseas anglers because Kingfish in NZ are limited to mainly Rec's and Spearo's, fly fishing for snapper could be as big as or bigger than trout/salmon... but the Quota Holders will just want more and more... we could and may likely if the increase to 40% is reached have these running side by side, but i still would like to see the Quota holders show some restraint plus solve the destruction of juvenile snapper and a reduction to help out in achieving this... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |