the little blighters

letsgetem

Titanium

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Whangaparaoa
Status: Offline
Points: 3318

I fished yesterday, and was plagued by little snapper stealing baits. This is not new. I can see how they do it. I think they see the barbed end of the hook, and know to avoid it. They grab hold of bait that protrudes out from the hook, and do a big powerful jerk using their bodies. That pulls the bait further away from the hook, so it becomes easier to get hold of. In an amazingly short time, the bait comes off. And thats with bait elastic wound securely to try and keep it on the hook.

Whereas bigger snapper just engulf the bait and get hooked.

S0 - how to reduce the constant loss of bait and rebaiting when there are small snapper but no big ones?

Bait elastic slows them down, slightly. I assume having hook point showing is bad, so I assume covering it with the bait is a good idea. Another possibility, is to put on two separate baits on the same hook, which would mean removing one bait would still leave the second one.

Somehow stopping bait from protruding could be worthwhile - as the nearest they have to get to the point the more likely they will make a mistake.

NOte this is in a situation where there are only too-small fish, but bigger ones are expected to arrive. If you think there probably wont be bigger fish, might as well move.

Anyone got pearls of wisdom on this problem.

Keith C

Titanium

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Urenui
Status: Offline
Points: 3167

Use octopus. Available in Pak'nS. Lasts well. Else do a Snappa Geoff with half a kahawai.
If you want to go away from bait, try a metal lure.

v8-coupe

Titanium

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4304

I have always believed and been led to believe that the point of the hook "should" be protruding from the bait.

Perhaps I have been wrong/mislead all these years.

Any experts out there that could point/me us in the right direction?

Thank you.

Cheers

Legasea Legend Member

Pcj

Titanium

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 4128

We hook mullet through once in a strip,and yes the bait bitten just before barb.they bite sb in 1/2.

"Times up"

smudge

Moderator - Ninja

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 33763

I leave the hooks well exposed. I use recurve hooks almost exclusively. I also fish the Manukau harbour which has plagues of small snapper. Big tough baits help but I prefer to just move. We use 8/0 hooks for snapper but will still get the occasional small fish.

Even big baits will get stripped right down until there is only a little bit left on the hook and then the next little fish is the one you catch.

Best gurnard fisherman in my street

Mc Tool

Gold

Joined: 23 Dec 2021
Location: Riverton
Status: Offline
Points: 844

If the little hua's are steeling bait cottoned baits , probly the next step is to use tougher baits , I like salted squid .

If you are waiting for the bigguns to show up maybe lift your anchor and drift back 50m in your berley trail ( thinkin you will be closer to the bigguns that are on their way ) and see if things dont improve.

I think generally that if all your catching is small ones its probly time to either move or possibly change tactics and targets and go for a different fish dinner, maybe Gurnard Smile

I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time

smudge

Moderator - Ninja

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 33763

Mc Tool wrote:

Smile

If the little hua's are steeling bait cottoned baits , probly the next step is to use tougher baits , I like salted squid .

If you are waiting for the bigguns to show up maybe lift your anchor and drift back 50m in your berley trail ( thinkin you will be closer to the bigguns that are on their way ) and see if things dont improve.

I think generally that if all your catching is small ones its probly time to either move or possibly change tactics and targets and go for a different fish dinner, maybe Gurnard Smile

Great advice!

Best gurnard fisherman in my street

Pcj

Titanium

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 4128

Mc Tool wrote:

Smile

If the little hua's are steeling bait cottoned baits , probly the next step is to use tougher baits , I like salted squid .

If you are waiting for the bigguns to show up maybe lift your anchor and drift back 50m in your berley trail ( thinkin you will be closer to the bigguns that are on their way ) and see if things dont improve.

I think generally that if all your catching is small ones its probly time to either move or possibly change tactics and targets and go for a different fish dinner, maybe Gurnard Smile

Go for a different species? Theres the problem with the Hauraki gulf,full of snapper small,big etc bugger all other species because advocay/mpi put so much effort in back 2012/2013 to save snapper they forgot about the other species.

"Times up"

Snappa Geoff View Drop Down

Titanium

Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Location: mokau
Status: Offline
Points: 6949

Hi Guys, I look at it a bit differently the reason why your catching the little ones. Its simple your putting down rigs and bait that they can eat or pick at easily. You may think im being a smart arse or wot ever with my replies it doesnt bother me. Same applies for fishing out West when catching 30cm and under Snaps. Try mixing it up, if i was harbour fishing i would run run small freshly caught whole baits like mackeral, herring. no takers cut them in half. using Pilly,squid, bits off fillet that are soft just invites the pickers. My thoughts on burley i think 90% of the time all it does is attract more and more little fish, but its thrashed on all the fishing shows so most use it. Have never used it and never will. Where i fish the little ones are there as well in there hundreds, if my baitline sabiki with little baits goes to near the bottom the pickers jump on straight away. I fish mid water for Kahawai and jack macs for bait. Exactly the same thing happens no matter where you fish. For instance my first trip away to a Coromandle Comp the majority fish mussle farms and heaps of burly small baits. the catch Snaps generally in the 30cm range. There are alot of small snaps there, we fished whole macs and half macs to avoid the pickers and caught winning fish. the pickers didnt touch our bait. Its not rocket science just common sence. Beer

letsgetem

Titanium

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Whangaparaoa
Status: Offline
Points: 3318

THats all interesting, thanks. But, that my original gripe was tiddlers stealing the bait too much, therefore costing too much in bait and effort.

And I want to stay there, because bigger snapper reliably turn up at some stage over the tide change. Unfortunately they seem to have varying schedules, so I cant be sure when they will arrive.

I catch virtually nil tiddlers because of the size 7 hook. One tip I will try is use octopus bait.

I am cogitating about making long narrow strips of squid, and winding it around the hook, and covering with bait elastic. Thats to reduce any bait sticking out that they can get hold of. Hopefully, when a big fish does arrive, it will still think its worth eating.

Its a pity that this forum is almost dead - put your thinking caps on about topics.

BananaBoat View Drop Down

Platinum

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Westy Aucks
Status: Offline
Points: 2066

Salt your pillies on newspaper, not in a brine
Newspaper separates the juice from the pillies and over the days will make the bait tough. Add more salt, the baits will be like leather.
A commercial fisherman who did charters in the off season at great barrier isl shared that with us and it works
Small snaps can't rip it off the hooks

Use bigger whole fresh baits with bait cotton also works
Keep your fresh strip baits off the bottom, surface to mid water is best, the snaps will come up for it
Also, come in closer to the reef, where it's more snaggy, the better fish will be there
If all else fails, just keep at it till it changes, I usually find it changes just before change of tide

rowboat bob View Drop Down

Gold

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 683

With spawning season just about here , there are only small snapper in close . The better fish are in 15 to 25m plus in the gulf. Came back from a sailing trip last Sunday and there was a number of undersize snapper floating in a line on the surface , out from Gulf Harbour . It looked like they had originated from a group fishing off the rocks on the breakwater. If you can't get out to at least 15m at present , then best to give it a break until Christmas.

letsgetem

Titanium

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Whangaparaoa
Status: Offline
Points: 3318

Banana Boat - thats interesting, keep baits up off the bottom. Will small snapper avoid going up high after them, while big fish will?

BananaBoat View Drop Down

Platinum

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Westy Aucks
Status: Offline
Points: 2066

Hard to say
This works for me where I fish on auckls nth shore, which is generally under 8m in snaggy foul ground, but mostly 2-4m

A few times when I was only getting undersize snaps, I stray line my 4kg mono setup, no trace, just using a spiders hitch double and got better fish just before change of tide..... other times just undersize fish to 33cm no matter what I do or just zilched out

Mid next month onwards the fishing will be better with fish size and numbers

Pcj

Titanium

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 4128

letsgetem wrote:

Banana Boat - thats interesting, keep baits up off the bottom. Will small snapper avoid going up high after them, while big fish will?

Ocean bounty on gulf trawlers,trawled mid water for snapper. We have seen sign on sounder mid water and yes they were bigger snapper,no sign on bottom but plagued by small fish on bottom.

"Times up"

Fish Addict View Drop Down

Platinum

Joined: 05 Jul 2009
Location: Perth WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2799

letsgetem wrote:

Banana Boat - thats interesting, keep baits up off the bottom. Will small snapper avoid going up high after them, while big fish will?

That is a theory I have held since I fished the Mayor Is. and Motiti Is. waters regularly in the 1970s. Stray lining with large baits would always catch the larger fish. Same practice works well over here in WA too.

Snappa Geoff View Drop Down

Titanium

Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Location: mokau
Status: Offline
Points: 6949

letsgetem wrote:

THats all interesting, thanks. But, that my original gripe was tiddlers stealing the bait too much, therefore costing too much in bait and effort.

And I want to stay there, because bigger snapper reliably turn up at some stage over the tide change. Unfortunately they seem to have varying schedules, so I cant be sure when they will arrive.

I catch virtually nil tiddlers because of the size 7 hook. One tip I will try is use octopus bait.

I am cogitating about making long narrow strips of squid, and winding it around the hook, and covering with bait elastic. Thats to reduce any bait sticking out that they can get hold of. Hopefully, when a big fish does arrive, it will still think its worth eating.

Its a pity that this forum is almost dead - put your thinking caps on about topics.

Letsgetem, Advice purchase a $4.95 cheap hunting and fishing sabiki and learn how to use one. that one sabiki will catch you all the bait you need and wotsmore is fresh alot better than anything you buy. All i take out is a couple of pillies for Kahawai a trip and sabikis and once the sabikis catch i use that bait to catch more Kahawai. you dont have to waste your money on bait like you say costing to much. Could go on replying to other coments but every fisho has different ideas theories and setups. as long as your happy out there doing it thats really all that matters. Beer

smudge

Moderator - Ninja

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 33763

[QUOTE=Snappa Geoff]Hi Guys, I look at it a bit differently the reason why your catching the little ones. Its simple your putting down rigs and bait that they can eat or pick at easily. You may think im being a smart arse or wot ever with my replies it doesnt bother me. Same applies for fishing out West when catching 30cm and under Snaps. Try mixing it up, if i was harbour fishing i would run run small freshly caught whole baits like mackeral, herring. no takers cut them in half. using Pilly,squid, bits off fillet that are soft just invites the pickers. My thoughts on burley i think 90% of the time all it does is attract more and more little fish, but its thrashed on all the fishing shows so most use it. Have never used it and never will. Where i fish the little ones are there as well in there hundreds, if my baitline sabiki with little baits goes to near the bottom the pickers jump on straight away. I fish mid water for Kahawai and jack macs for bait. Exactly the same thing happens no matter where you fish. For instance my first trip away to a Coromandle Comp the majority fish mussle farms and heaps of burly small baits. the catch Snaps generally in the 30cm range. There are alot of small snaps there, we fished whole macs and half macs to avoid the pickers and caught winning fish. the pickers didnt touch our bait. Its not rocket science just common sence. Beer

[/QUOTE

As probably the best big snapper fishermen I've met (there's a few) I have to say that Geoff's advice is good. Whole fish tend to be left alone by the smaller snaps, You will catch fewer snapper but the big ones will feature.

Best gurnard fisherman in my street